State of the Market

[LondonManc]

In my 20+ years as a PM for several different retail and investment banks none used more the 5% of prince framework - most just made it up

Agile is great if you want to write 10 lines of code each week into production with a team of 10 bods

JFDI masquerading as some other methodology is the most consistent approach that I've seen in banking. Having Jira installed doesn't make them agile all of a sudden!

[dx4100]

Agile but most especially Scrum are terrible, at least in the way it his been adopted by most of industry. It is a form a micro management that leads to some very bad behaviours. This is about a 20 min read but a very good critique of it's failings.

Why “Agile” and especially Scrum are terrible – Michael O. Church

Agile / scrum isn't the problem - its the way companies sloppy implement it likes its some silver bullet and the concept you can replace proper project management with it - which sounds like something we can agree on.

The two should be used together in my opinion and when you do use them both together (when it suits what you are trying to do), and cherry what each is best at, lot of the issues correctly highlighted in that link go away. Particularly the problem of their being no end.

[PCTNN]

Agile but most especially Scrum are terrible, at least in the way it his been adopted by most of industry. It is a form a micro management that leads to some very bad behaviours. This is about a 20 min read but a very good critique of it's failings.

https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com...-are-terrible/

I LOVE agile and scrum. There is so much time wasted with all those mostly useless meetings (sprint planning, daily stand ups, sprint review, and so on) that simple projects go on and on and on and we all know that delays = contract extensions.

Agile and scrum are paying my mortgage.

[Hertsseasider]

I LOVE agile and scrum. There is so much time wasted with all those mostly useless meetings (sprint planning, daily stand ups, sprint review, and so on) that simple projects go on and on and on and we all know that delays = contract extensions.

Agile and scrum are paying my mortgage.

+1

[Cirrus]

And programmers see PM as the guy who signs the timesheets and has no other value

And PMs see programmers as cogs who often have no idea where the information they are processing comes from , or goes to, or why.

That's by far the biggest flaw in Scrum - it is painting by numbers. Too many people only see the numbers without being able to understand the picture.

[Paralytic]

Agile but most especially Scrum are terrible, at least in the way it his been adopted by most of industry. It is a form a micro management that leads to some very bad behaviours. This is about a 20 min read but a very good critique of it's failings.

https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com...-are-terrible/

I've not read the article yet (about to) but if the implementation of agile has resulted in micro-management, then that's not Scrum, and any critique taking place is not a critique of the framework's failings, but a critique of of the implementation of the framework.

Scrum most certainly should not introduce micro-management - it has self-managing teams at its core.

[PlanB]

I LOVE agile and scrum. There is so much time wasted with all those mostly useless meetings (sprint planning, daily stand ups, sprint review, and so on) that simple projects go on and on and on and we all know that delays = contract extensions.

Agile and scrum are paying my mortgage.

I rest my case m'lud

For it's ability to turn a 3 month project into a year long one it can not be beaten, especially in the public sector. Once GDS comes into play and you need about 15 people to get a 5 page app out the door then the padding becomes ludicrous.

I really should shut up, it hasn't done my bank balance any harm either.

[PlanB]

I've not read the article yet (about to) but if the implementation of agile has resulted in micro-management, then that's not Scrum, and any critique taking place is not a critique of the framework's failings, but a critique of of the implementation of the framework.

Scrum most certainly should not introduce micro-management - it has self-managing teams at its core.

Perhaps like communism it hasn't been done properly yet. I've not seen an example so far where the scrum master has got the team self managed and buggered off. It's just a lot of low level micro management to make sure there is no slacking off.

Any long term technical vision or thought about architecture goes out the window as the next sprints set of features need implemented.

[AddingValue]

Maybe we should create an Agile thread for this then :P...but I am sure there is already one...

[Paralytic]

Perhaps like communism it hasn't been done properly yet. I've not seen an example so far where the scrum master has got the team self managed and buggered off. It's just a lot of low level micro management to make sure there is no slacking off.

I have also seen "lets do agile" implemented where it ended up as micro-management, but it was not any form of agile I've ever seen anyone promote. I've also seen examples where it has been done much better with benefits realised.

Any long term technical vision or thought about architecture goes out the window as the next sprints set of features need implemented.

Then at least one person was not doing their job. That's the fault of the people, not the framework. Perhaps they needed micro-managed or managed out?

Maybe we should create an Agile thread for this then :P...but I am sure there is already one...

This is discussing the state of the market, surely?