State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

If they want see how you code, why don't they remote pair-program with the developer?

The answer no, because that they cannot or will not invest the time with a technical lead or senior dev to help. They deserve all they get.

Or, radically, invite them into their office to do it.

[SussexSeagull]

Absolutely, positively, agree with this statement. It's partly because IT is usually a massive cost to businesses, without adding any return value to the bottom line. Or well something that can be seen at least.

I was going to say we should be at the same level as Engineers and Skilled Technicians but I don't think they get the respect they deserve either. I think over the last couple of decades we have transitioned from being considered part of the decision making process to purely a delivery mechanism that can be turned on and off like a tap.

Also we have been caught up in the short term thinking that prioritises saving a pound over earning a fiver.

[dsc]

I was going to say we should be at the same level as Engineers and Skilled Technicians but I don't think they get the respect they deserve either. I think over the last couple of decades we have transitioned from being considered part of the decision making process to purely a delivery mechanism that can be turned on and off like a tap.

Also we have been caught up in the short term thinking that prioritises saving a pound over earning a fiver.

We are living in a country where engineer isn't even a protected title, so no wonder engineers aren't regarded as skilled professionals (same or even worse goes for technicians). And from managements point of view technical people are very often just a resource, in their mind there's loads of them available and it's hard for them to grasp that someone can have the same skills yet be 2 / 3 times more productive.

[TheDude]

If they want see how you code, why don't they remote pair-program with the developer?

The answer no, because that they cannot or will not invest the time with a technical lead or senior dev to help. They deserve all they get.

Probably the toughest online coding test I have faced - four pretty complex problems with loads of edge cases to solve in one hour.

It's not like they are Google DeepMind either.

[oliverson]

Probably the toughest online coding test I have faced - four pretty complex problems with loads of edge cases to solve in one hour.

It's not like they are Google DeepMind either.

I've just had a real nightmare as well, being presented with code snippets from technology I haven't used in 17 years. Nobody uses it. I asked them if this was their code or if they plan on using that approach and they said not. Then asked them why they're asking that question. Second question, some noddy obfuscated line of JS code making using of the browser's 'window' object. Again, why are you asking this question for a server-side role? Clearly these people are idiots, so I brought the interview to a close.

Just like Apollo Creed telling Rocky Balboa to 'STAY DOWN', something is telling Oliverson to 'STAY RETIRED'!

[Dorkeaux]

I've just had a real nightmare as well, being presented with code snippets from technology I haven't used in 17 years. Nobody uses it. I asked them if this was their code or if they plan on using that approach and they said not. Then asked them why they're asking that question. Second question, some noddy obfuscated line of JS code making using of the browser's 'window' object. Again, why are you asking this question for a server-side role? Clearly these people are idiots, so I brought the interview to a close.

Just like Apollo Creed telling Rocky Balboa to 'STAY DOWN', something is telling Oliverson to 'STAY RETIRED'!

I freaking hate technical testing during an interview, in general.
I don't work straight coding contracts anymore, so I'm not often asked.

The exception being a data modelling test I was given a while ago in an interview.
That was great. Tremendous fun creating a normalised data model for a long text-based scenario.

Were your interviewers the people you would be working with?
I often grit my teeth through the drones in the first round to get to speak to the people actually related to the work.

[oliverson]

I freaking hate technical testing during an interview, in general.
I don't work straight coding contracts anymore, so I'm not often asked.

The exception being a data modelling test I was given a while ago in an interview.
That was great. Tremendous fun creating a normalised data model for a long text-based scenario.

Were your interviewers the people you would be working with?
I often grit my teeth through the drones in the first round to get to speak to the people actually related to the work.

I used to enjoy those kind of interviews - create an Entity Relationship Diagram. Fun and actually of some real world usage. It was one of the main questions that got me into investment banking. They said it was the best answer to that question they'd seen.

What I don't enjoy is a bunch of absolutely pointless and irrelevant questions where the interviewers haven't even thought about the questions they'd like to ask, just wheel something out from 20 years ago.

[edison]

I used to enjoy those kind of interviews - create an Entity Relationship Diagram. Fun and actually of some real world usage. It was one of the main questions that got me into investment banking. They said it was the best answer to that question they'd seen.

What I don't enjoy is a bunch of absolutely pointless and irrelevant questions where the interviewers haven't even thought about the questions they'd like to ask, just wheel something out from 20 years ago.

I've done a large number of interviews with other interviewers and I'd say 80% of them have very little idea of how to interview.

Back in the late 90s I was an assessor at several day long assessment centres for new grads. I was given about half a day's training on how to interview etc. Most interviewers today have probably been given a sheet of A4 with a few tips at best and gave not got a clue or even any interest, at worst.

It never ceased to amaze me how little effort many managers of teams put into the whole hiring process.

[SchumiStars]

I don't do well at tech tests at all. On the odd occasion, I know the answers and do ok.

I generally hate them for that reason. There is always someone who can do them better so I never prepare for them in anyway.

On the occasions we're I have stormed the tech tests and got perfect answers I have never got the job. It really is a very odd assessment which I have never understood.

The last one, 2 days ago wanted me to talk about the benefits of object orientation and how solid principles can be used. This was at 2200 in the evening from a guy in India. I really did put the phone down.

[willendure]

I've just had a real nightmare as well, being presented with code snippets from technology I haven't used in 17 years. Nobody uses it. I asked them if this was their code or if they plan on using that approach and they said not. Then asked them why they're asking that question. Second question, some noddy obfuscated line of JS code making using of the browser's 'window' object. Again, why are you asking this question for a server-side role? Clearly these people are idiots, so I brought the interview to a close.

Thats terrible - at least ask questions that are relevant. Probably shows that they have done zero preparation for the interview, and just googled for some code tests.