State of the Market

[dsc]

Surely it cannot get any worse for IT? We have to be at rock bottom now. I cannot see how it can possibly get any worse from here.

Sure it can, throw in loads more layoffs which will create even more demand for ANY jobs.

I'm from Poland where the IT job "scene" has been thriving for the last 10-15yrs or so, everyone assumed it would always be this way, but currently there's a 40-45% drop in IT vacancies, so basically the same tulip as in the UK. If it's that bad there, I can see it going even worse elsewhere.

[willendure]

We haven't seen the worst of it yet.
There is supposedly a long lag between interest rate hikes and the effect they have on the economy.
It wont be until 2025 that the economy feels the full effect of 5% interest rates.
If they don't cut rates this year, we are in for more pain.

Typically around 18 months from the start of the hiking cycle is when the recession gets underway. Which is around now.

[WTFH]

Contracting is about getting results quickly or you're out - nothing to do with 'politics' - the relationship building you mention isnt 'politics' - you dont seem to understand the difference between the 2 terms.

"permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job" - the ones that get stuck in the same job for years and never get promoted do.

The ones that want to go up the ladder regularly into senior roles know its heavily politics driven

You dont know anything about me or the circumstances in this instance.

I should have done this - I should have done that - relax yourself.

Best not to make yourself look silly with your wild assumptions about other peoples skills you know nothing about.

You seem to do different contracts to me.

I go in to deliver a project, it's not "getting results quickly or you're out", it's getting a project delivered that meets the client's needs.
Once I've done that, I move on to the next client. Most of my roles over the last 25+ years have come from the politics of building relationships. if you say a business relationship has nothing to do with politics, then you're a very "good" politician.

There's also plenty of people who don't care about promotion or being called "CIO" or "Director" or whatever. They don't want the hassle that goes with the role.
You might consider them failures, but maybe they have a better life balance, doing fractional distillation rather than fractional directorship, taking the time to go out walking their dog, or whatever important thing they choose to put in their avatar.

[BlueSharp]

Typically around 18 months from the start of the hiking cycle is when the recession gets underway. Which is around now.

The FTSE is showing some strength at the moment which I take as a positive. Antidotally I expect to see a bounce 10 months after it strengthens as market conditions start to favor ROI even with the higher interest rates.

The jobs market is also at a 32-month low so cutting interest rates will be on the cards very soon (which is driving the FTSE boom).

[tsmith]

I don't agree with much of the above but as you say it's highly circumstantial and can't be covered in a single sentence.

I've had gigs where the quick results is a factor but for some reason my last three years has been very much about negotiation, positioning and keeping the client happy which hasn't always meant working my nuts off. I agree there is a difference between the two terms but recently the two have been pretty well overlapped so when someone says politics to me I know what they mean even if it's not the dictionary definition of the word.

It is arguable that you are using the wrong politics/relationship building that helps people get in to senior roles as well. To not argue about it both and either can be used.

I don't think you are right as you've tried to explain it there but I also see that politics could mean something else to WTFH so it's definitely a discussion that's going south mainly because of the media being used.

And yes, all the above said, it's highly dependant on circumstance but nothing wrong with us giving our experience to the board based on our circumstances.

Ive yet to see you agree with a post. I disagree with your post.

The definition between relationships and politics should be obvious and clear no?

Relationships = Building a positive, well intentioned, deep working relationship with someone

Politics = Building superficial relationships without the main driver being a positive working relationship - the main driver being using the relationship to deploy underhanded tactics to make others look bad and yourself look good or it some ways play political games instead of focussing on doing actual work

In my years of Perm - for the people in senior roles and to get into senior roles - its highly political - if youve seen it different then good for you.

If youre trying to be a permalancer - eg years on the same gig as a freelancer then maybe politics comes into play

But thats a rarity - a 6 to 12 months contract gig - its surely you only have time for minimal of relationship building necessary for the role and no time or desire for politics.

[BlueSharp]

Ive yet to see you agree with a post. I disagree with your post.

The definition between relationships and politics should be obvious and clear no?

Relationships = Building a positive, well intentioned, deep working relationship with someone

Politics = Building superficial relationships without the main driver being a positive working relationship - the main driver being using the relationship to deploy underhanded tactics to make others look bad and yourself look good or it some ways play political games instead of focussing on doing actual work

In my years of Perm - for the people in senior roles and to get into senior roles - its highly political - if youve seen it different then good for you.

If youre trying to be a permalancer - eg years on the same gig as a freelancer then maybe politics comes into play

But thats a rarity - a 6 to 12 months contract gig - its surely you only have time for minimal of relationship building necessary for the role and no time or desire for politics.

If you're only sticking around for a client a 6-12 months rather than until the end of the project, I suggest understanding office politics and what the organisation needs is something for you to work on.

This might help educate you more on the role of office politics, unless of course you know better than one of the most prestige business school publications.

https://hbr.org/2021/07/you-cant-sit...ffice-politics

Do you see the irony in making a statement such as politics being underhand and superficial is you playing politics to advance your viewpoint over others opinions?

[avonleigh]

Sure it can, throw in loads more layoffs which will create even more demand for ANY jobs.

I'm from Poland where the IT job "scene" has been thriving for the last 10-15yrs or so, everyone assumed it would always be this way, but currently there's a 40-45% drop in IT vacancies, so basically the same tulip as in the UK. If it's that bad there, I can see it going even worse elsewhere.

40-45% in Poland. In the UK it's probably around 80%. So I don't agree that it can get any worse. So I stand by my original comment that we are now at rock bottom.

[tsmith]

If you're only sticking around for a client a 6-12 months rather than until the end of the project, I suggest understanding office politics and what the organisation needs is something for you to work on.

This might help educate you more on the role of office politics, unless of course you know better than one of the most prestige business school publications.

https://hbr.org/2021/07/you-cant-sit...ffice-politics

Do you see the irony in making a statement such as politics being underhand and superficial is you playing politics to advance your viewpoint over others opinions?

No idea what your point is sorry

Wheres the playing politics in my post exactly?

Oh gosh more "career advice"

Did you read my definitions? The distinction between politics and relationship building? It seems not

The end of the project is typically within 12 months - same for all my friends in contracting - I get results fast

[BlueSharp]

No idea what your point is sorry

Wheres the playing politics in my post exactly?

Oh gosh more "career advice"

Did you read my definitions? The distinction between politics and relationship building? It seems not

The end of the project is typically within 12 months - same for all my friends in contracting - I get results fast

Yes, I read your incorrect definitions and tried to help educate you but you believe you know better than the most respected business journal.

I call BS that projects are typically 12 months. Being moved on before the project is completed is a sure sign of a cowboy! YEEHAW!

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

My contracting experience is that I do 3% work 97% nothing in most gigs.

Often the company is too big and has no idea what it's doing, so you're in but then they haven't figured out what they want, so you're basically sat there just trying to hurry up and wait. Asking too many questions about when you're going to get work just makes people really stressed or they'll give you some nonsense like read some irrelevant documentation.

I've never done less work as a contractor. Unfortunately it affects your mental health a lot. A while back when I took a 1 month gig under market rate as a side-job and they gave me a spec and said build this, I was working all day programming it and it was the happiest I've been for years.

I hope to just get financially stable and then move into something completely different within a year or two.