45 hour working week?

[psychocandy]

45 hours, wait until they start wanting a little extra, as a favour, on top.

Do you have a good sleeping bag

Agreed. If they've got 45 hours in the bag they'll adge for a tad more its human nature. Nearly all clients I've been at have been like this.

Generally, I tend to let a little go as part of the deal but if it starts getting into the 2 hour plus or weekend thing, then we need to sort something out. TOIL is not ideal but, rather than be awkward, I will do this - i.e. I'll speak to client and say Im off friday but I want to bill for it because I did that work out of hours/weekend. Ok with you?

Never refused. Of course, we all know if they say no then that'll be the end of these extras for them.

[psychocandy]

If that's your definition of PWD what's your definition of clock watching or doing the absolute minimum?

My definition of PWD is around 7.5/8 hours per day (ok up to 9 hours) on average. What I'm saying is that no I dont down tools on the dot, but I expect it to work both ways. i.e. Dont moan if I've stayed late one evening when next week Im in at 11 because of a dentist appointment.

If it gets more, or I'm working a full day then logging in from home, or a few remote hours at the weekend (not billing for that day), then I expect to be able to take a day off some time later and bill for it.

Yes I could stamp my feet and say I worked saturday Im billing for it but it depends on the client. Some just would not be able to budget for the extra day or get it allowed. If I trust them then I'm happy to do the day off later and bill for it thing. Gentlemans agreement.

Like I said, usually all parties are aware of refusal to reciprocate with my request for this will mean the end of favours/flexibility on my part.

[psychocandy]

If that's your definition of PWD what's your definition of clock watching or doing the absolute minimum?

Clock watching is doing minimum hours and leaving dead on time even though there is a need to stay longer be it urgent tech issue or important workload.

What I dont agree is staying just to look good. If there is no emergency and no urgent workload I will leave on time. I have a life.

[northernladuk]

And PWD is having some flexibility but still averaging the absolute minimum?

[NotAllThere]

I definitely work the absolute minimum to get the job done and keep the client happy. Anything else is a bit silly.

[psychocandy]

And PWD is having some flexibility but still averaging the absolute minimum?

No its not "having" to do the absolute minimum its being a little flexible and doing a little extra if needs be. But its got to be based on something at least.

Like I said, I dont stay late just to look good.

So go on then, give us your take. What hours do you work? How much over the standard day do you do? At what point do you say enough is enough?

[garnet]

The PWD is 7.5 hours. This is what you should do/negotiate.
Everything else is silly.
If need be you stay and do your job/task. If it is normal work load you do 7.5 hours a day and go home to have a life.
My current contract is for 37 hours a week. I don't know why.

[northernladuk]

So go on then, give us your take. What hours do you work? How much over the standard day do you do? At what point do you say enough is enough?

Personally I do what it takes. It depends on the commute, the working environment, the work to be done, the personality of the clients manager and staff around me. I just get on and do what is needed for each gig. In each case I've always done more than the minimum as I believe you should be slightly better than the permies at the very least. I also usually smash the first month and then when I've gained their respect I can start to take my foot of the pedal/work in some flexibility etc. I've yet to have anyone take the piss just because I've put extra time in, in fact quite the opposite. I've often gotten more out of putting more time in than they got out of me in the long run, flexibility etc.

I'm in it for the challenge still though, not just to do my hours and get my invoice in although I am sure that will kick in at some point.

[northernladuk]

The PWD is 7.5 hours. This is what you should do/negotiate.
Everything else is silly.
If need be you stay and do your job/task. If it is normal work load you do 7.5 hours a day and go home to have a life.
My current contract is for 37 hours a week. I don't know why.

Citation?

37 hours is 9-5 with 1/2 an hour for lunch every day and a 4.30 leave on Friday (or an hour at the pub at lunch).

[malvolio]

Not again...

A PWD doesn't have a time limit. You do productive work in any 24 hour period then you charge an agreed set fee whether it's one hour or 23. You're not there to feed a time clock, you're there to deliver something.

And a 45 hour week is not exceptional - if you allow for the Human Remains mentality that thinks because their permies are 9-6 with an hour for lunch then you have to work 45 hours when in reality you'll do 40 plus assorted breaks.

And if you still don't like it, don't take the gig.