45 hour working week?

[northernladuk]

I wasn't making a permie assumption about hours, I was just trying to find out if the working hours are out of the ordinary in your guys experience.

Well a PWD is generally accepted but it is open to interpretation.

Yup, their HR department drew up the contract so have to deal with them.

Fine but that's not good. They'll just stick to what they are told I'd expect. Makes a working practices IR35 check a little difficult though as they will be too detached from the actual work.

I've read through the contract, yes, and yes I do need PI/PL insurance.
No I don't have it yet as I was waiting for the contract to come through to see if I needed it, I will be getting it through QDOS unless anyone has any better recommendations?

QDOS is as good as they come. Their PI/PL comes with 3 free contract reviews a year although they are fairly basic. You may still need to make a decision whether to have a full monty in more complex situation or until you get a pretty good understanding of IR35. I have PI/PL with them as well as TLC35 and have done for many years but if you are going to join do an old man a favour and use this link so I get the referral seems you are going anyway. Thank you.

Also on contract reviews, are the reviews by accountancy firms (InTouch in this instance) generally not great compared to QDOS etc?

I don't doubt the quality of it but my accountants are my accountants and my IR35 specialists are my IR35 specialists. I'm more than happy to keep them separate and in their field of expertise but that is in my opinion.

[FrontEnder]

I have PI/PL with them as well as TLC35 and have done for many years but if you are going to join do an old man a favour and use this link so I get the referral seems you are going anyway. Thank you.

Better yet, do a young man who doesn't have a giant war chest the favour and use this link:

[Flibble]

45 hours seems to be the "new normal". I had two interviews recently and was a little shocked both times to be told the standard working day (*) was 9-6. Another that I didn't apply for stipulated working 40 hours per week (note, working, not attending - their working day was also 9 hours long).

Not sure exactly when it happened, but until this year I had never encountered it.


(*) Before you ask, yes, this was the contract for permies - 45 hours in the office per week, working 40 of them.

[SueEllen]

45 hours seems to be the "new normal". I had two interviews recently and was a little shocked both times to be told the standard working day (*) was 9-6. Another that I didn't apply for stipulated working 40 hours per week (note, working, not attending - their working day was also 9 hours long).

Not sure exactly when it happened, but until this year I had never encountered it.


(*) Before you ask, yes, this was the contract for permies - 45 hours in the office per week, working 40 of them.

And we can't work out why we have a high staff turnover....

[Contreras]

Also on contract reviews, are the reviews by accountancy firms (InTouch in this instance) generally not great compared to QDOS etc?

If you are new to contracting and the contract is prepared by HR and the company is new, then definitely get it reviewed properly because it could easily be a minefield of IR35 faux pas. This should be by someone with regular experience of IR35 defence work. At any one time QDOS (and others) will have cases on the go. Ask your accountant how many IR35 defence cases he/she has handled and what was the outcome?

A professional review service should also negotiate directly on your behalf. An option may also be to offer your own contract, based on IPSE or QDOS template, if the HR contract is unacceptable.

As for the hours, there isn't really a "standard". If you aren't happy with the offer then counter it, e.g. - "my original offered rate £xxx assumed a contracted 7.5/hr day, of course I often work well beyond the contracted hours at my discretion and you won't be billed for this, however if you really want a contracted 9hr/day then the rate would be £yyy."

Remind them that with the ease of termination the client has it shouldn't be necessary to stipulate minimum hours (Sword of Damocles and all that...), you are there to get the job done not be clock watching.

Personally I wouldn't accept a contract with minimum 9hr/day even though I regularly work this. The client is happy to be getting 'free' hours but as far as I am concerned it's factored into the rate already and I have the flexibility to ease off before it kills me.

[BrilloPad]

Sounds like a long day to me - I'd walk

The day rate is for £xxx for 9 hours work, not 45.

Depends what industry you are in. But, at my advanced years, I would not take it.

In finance, the term "working" is often loose. It can mean start and finish time. So my last role, permanent, had 8 hour shifts. That included an hour for lunch. Almost everyone else did 10-12 hour days. I can do that much work in 8 hours so I was unaffected.

[WTFH]

Just to be pedantic, they have not reduced your day rate. You accepted £450 per day, they are going to pay you £450 per day. The daily rate has not changed at all.
The number of hours they expect you to work is different to the number of hours you thought you were going to work. If you didn't discuss this earlier, then you'll be working longer per day than you had hoped to. Note the use of the words "you thought" and "you hoped".
The other way to look at it is that if you "normally" work a 10 hour day, then in this case you are getting an increase in your day rate. Yay for you, well done!

[MrMarkyMark]

45 hours, wait until they start wanting a little extra, as a favour, on top.

Do you have a good sleeping bag

[psychocandy]

45 hours seems to be the "new normal". I had two interviews recently and was a little shocked both times to be told the standard working day (*) was 9-6. Another that I didn't apply for stipulated working 40 hours per week (note, working, not attending - their working day was also 9 hours long).

Not sure exactly when it happened, but until this year I had never encountered it.


(*) Before you ask, yes, this was the contract for permies - 45 hours in the office per week, working 40 of them.

Sod that. Permies made to take an hour for lunch too?

45 hours = extra hour a day. Appreciate that with PWD you can't walk out of the door at 7.5 every day BUT I TRY to average that. Only the odd day is it more.
Thing is diluting the day rate too.

The extra hour makes a difference to having a life or not or seeing your kids before they go to bed etc. For me, 8 hours plus 3 hours commute - 11 hours away just about works. Odd times its a late one and I stay over if its planned.

12 hours away per day probably just wouldnt work for me.

Did have an interview years ago and cant remember exactly but they said something like we expect contractors to work minimum 10 hours a day.

[northernladuk]

. Only the odd day is it more..

If that's your definition of PWD what's your definition of clock watching or doing the absolute minimum?