45 hour working week?

[keshi]

Hi There

I'm new here and wondered if I could get an opinion on something.

Am just about to start my first contract (Monday) but have only received an electronic copy of the contract today.

On reading it, there is stipulation of a 45 hour work week.

Not withstanding that it seems like an employee like clause (my accountant is reviewing the contract with regards to IR35 currently), does this seem odd to anyone?
I've generally had 40 hour work weeks as a permie and was expecting similar as a contractor.
I don't mind the time, but as I have a day rate it effectively reduces my day rate by £50.

Is it worth trying to negotiate with the HR considering the contract is so imminent?

Cheers
Keshi

[NotAllThere]

Hi There

I'm new here and wondered if I could get an opinion on something.

Am just about to start my first contract (Monday) but have only received an electronic copy of the contract today.

On reading it, there is stipulation of a 45 hour work week.

Not withstanding that it seems like an employee like clause (my accountant is reviewing the contract with regards to IR35 currently), does this seem odd to anyone?
I've generally had 40 hour work weeks as a permie and was expecting similar as a contractor.
I don't mind the time, but as I have a day rate it effectively reduces my day rate by £50.

Is it worth trying to negotiate with the HR considering the contract is so imminent?

Cheers
Keshi

You shouldn't be negotiating with HR. Perhaps with the agency if you're going through one. Or with purchasing. But HR (ideally) shouldn't be involved.

Fact is, if it's 45 hours a week, then that's what it is. I got caught that way once. Utterly pointless as what it meant was "longer tea breaks". No additional work was actually done. You could try to negotiate, but only if you really will quit otherwise.

[keshi]

HR are the one's who've drawn up the contract (It's a relatively small company I think) which is why I was thinking of speaking to them.
I applied etc through an agent but the contract is direct with the client.

As a bit of background the company very rarely hire any contractors, I will be the first in a couple of years.

[TheFaQQer]

Not withstanding that it seems like an employee like clause (my accountant is reviewing the contract with regards to IR35 currently), does this seem odd to anyone?

No odder than asking an accountant to do a lawyer's job, I guess.

[northernladuk]

Hi There

I'm new here and wondered if I could get an opinion on something.

Am just about to start my first contract (Monday) but have only received an electronic copy of the contract today.

On reading it, there is stipulation of a 45 hour work week.

Not withstanding that it seems like an employee like clause (my accountant is reviewing the contract with regards to IR35 currently), does this seem odd to anyone?
I've generally had 40 hour work weeks as a permie and was expecting similar as a contractor.
I don't mind the time, but as I have a day rate it effectively reduces my day rate by £50.

Is it worth trying to negotiate with the HR considering the contract is so imminent?

Cheers
Keshi

It would seem more permie if it said 38.75 hours. Not many permies would take a 45 hour gig.

The client is paying money for a service (probably per day) so it's not unreasonable to expect to detail how many hours he wants for his dollah...
It would be better to say Professional Working Day which often starts a heated discussion but in this case they obviously don't want PWD.

What is strange that you are calling out the 45 hours as a permie like clause but in the next line you make permie assumption that has absolutely no place in contracting. Doesn't matter what you did in permie land. That's gone, forget about it. You are a contractor now. The day rate is for £xxx for 45 hours work. That's the agreement. You either accepting it or you don't (or negotiate of course)

Why are you negotiating with HR? Who sent you the contract? Is there no agent in place? If there is it is the agent you need negotiate with. If it was HR then negotiate with them. What have to remember this is a negotiation to get what you want... NOT to bring it inline with permie traits that you are used to. If you want more money for the gig ask for it, if you want less hours then go down that route. Don't whatever you do start talking about the rate being less because you have a different perception of hours.

Have you read your contract and do you understand it? It's not all about IR35. There could be clauses you need to know and understand. One example is insurances. Does it stipulate PI/PL? Have you bought it?
Don't go on site until the contract has been checked and amended to suit and signed. And next time use someone like QDOS, B&C etc for your contract checks.

[TheFaQQer]

The day rate is for £xxx for 45 hours work.

Sounds like a long day to me - I'd walk

The day rate is for £xxx for 9 hours work, not 45.

[northernladuk]

Sounds like a long day to me - I'd walk

The day rate is for £xxx for 9 hours work, not 45.

WTF are you talkin... ah.. right. erm.. Correct!!!

[keshi]

It would seem more permie if it said 38.75 hours. Not many permies would take a 45 hour gig.

The client is paying money for a service (probably per day) so it's not unreasonable to expect to detail how many hours he wants for his dollah...
It would be better to say Professional Working Day which often starts a heated discussion but in this case they obviously don't want PWD.

What is strange that you are calling out the 45 hours as a permie like clause but in the next line you make permie assumption that has absolutely no place in contracting. Doesn't matter what you did in permie land. That's gone, forget about it. You are a contractor now. The day rate is for £xxx for 45 hours work. That's the agreement. You either accepting it or you don't (or negotiate of course)

Why are you negotiating with HR? Who sent you the contract? Is there no agent in place? If there is it is the agent you need negotiate with. If it was HR then negotiate with them. What have to remember this is a negotiation to get what you want... NOT to bring it inline with permie traits that you are used to. If you want more money for the gig ask for it, if you want less hours then go down that route. Don't whatever you do start talking about the rate being less because you have a different perception of hours.

Have you read your contract and do you understand it? It's not all about IR35. There could be clauses you need to know and understand. One example is insurances. Does it stipulate PI/PL? Have you bought it?
Don't go on site until the contract has been checked and amended to suit and signed. And next time use someone like QDOS, B&C etc for your contract checks.

I wasn't making a permie assumption about hours, I was just trying to find out if the working hours are out of the ordinary in your guys experience.

Yup, their HR department drew up the contract so have to deal with them.

I've read through the contract, yes, and yes I do need PI/PL insurance.
No I don't have it yet as I was waiting for the contract to come through to see if I needed it, I will be getting it through QDOS unless anyone has any better recommendations?

Also on contract reviews, are the reviews by accountancy firms (InTouch in this instance) generally not great compared to QDOS etc?

[malvolio]

I wasn't making a permie assumption about hours, I was just trying to find out if the working hours are out of the ordinary in your guys experience.

Yup, their HR department drew up the contract so have to deal with them.

I've read through the contract, yes, and yes I do need PI/PL insurance.
No I don't have it yet as I was waiting for the contract to come through to see if I needed it, I will be getting it through QDOS unless anyone has any better recommendations?

Also on contract reviews, are the reviews by accountancy firms (InTouch in this instance) generally not great compared to QDOS etc?

QDOS as good as any for cheap PI/PLI/ELI, but there are others out there. As an independent suppliers you need it anyway, and it's not that expensive compared to the likely contract value

As for contract reviews, if you just want IR35 checked than take your pick. Some - Abbey Tax, for example - look at the whole contract but will cost a little more (do it through your IPSE membership for a discount...). Given IR35 isn't the most important element (the dividing line is getting ever more clear cut, sadly in the wrong direction) that deeper commercial analysis may be worth having.

[psychocandy]

Sounds like a long day to me - I'd walk

The day rate is for £xxx for 9 hours work, not 45.

Client sticking 9 hours down because they want to get their moneys worth out of the contractor. Seen it before - they just dont like the idea of the contractor doing normal hours.