Power cut, sent home.

[psychocandy]

Well heres my take. If it happened to me and client said no way we're only paying half a day....

Then next time when they come to me on a friday afternoon and say please please please can you work saturday I'd be like "umm no too late". And when someone screws something up and they want me to stay for an hour too late to help.....

But on the other hand, if the client says fair does, just stick it down as the day not your fault after all we know we'll see us right, then next time they asked me to do a favour I'd remember this. All told they'd probably get more out of me for free than the half day they're paying.

Fortunately, the second type of behaviour is what current client would likely do and Im appreciative of that.

[d000hg]

Surprised there's any debate about this, I'd say it's pretty simple: we don't get paid for our availability to work, we get paid for actually doing work. No work = no pay.

So if you finish your current piece of work at 10am and they say, OK let's figure out what needs doing next, and get back to you at 1200 saying "clearly since you didn't work those 2 hours, we're not paying"...

1/2 day seems fair in this case but there's some difference between being told in advance there's no work, and being sent home once you came on site and gave up the day. Dependent on travel situation, you might not come in for half-days.

[northernladuk]

Well heres my take. If it happened to me and client said no way we're only paying half a day....

Please tell me why you wouldn't accept this bearing in mind it's in your contract in black and white? Am thinking your attitude is wrong from the off so god knows what the next section is gonna say.

Then next time when they come to me on a friday afternoon and say please please please can you work saturday I'd be like "umm no too late". And when someone screws something up and they want me to stay for an hour too late to help.....

hmmm, cutting your own nose of to spite your face.. Very professional attitude. Client adheres to contract, you act like an arse. Winner all round.

But on the other hand, if the client says fair does, just stick it down as the day not your fault after all we know we'll see us right, then next time they asked me to do a favour I'd remember this. All told they'd probably get more out of me for free than the half day they're paying.

Fortunately, the second type of behaviour is what current client would likely do and Im appreciative of that.

It would be nice of them but it's not essential as it's laid out in the contract you signed.

Acting like a dick just because of one unforeseen and very unlikely to ever happen again event when everyone is carrying out the wording of the contract is just plain stupid. You know nothing about how the client acts with the OP day to day or what type of relationship they have so why go straight for the jugular?

[psychocandy]

Please tell me why you wouldn't accept this bearing in mind it's in your contract in black and white? Am thinking your attitude is wrong from the off so god knows what the next section is gonna say.



hmmm, cutting your own nose of to spite your face.. Very professional attitude. Client adheres to contract, you act like an arse. Winner all round.



It would be nice of them but it's not essential as it's laid out in the contract you signed.

Acting like a dick just because of one unforeseen and very unlikely to ever happen again event when everyone is carrying out the wording of the contract is just plain stupid. You know nothing about how the client acts with the OP day to day or what type of relationship they have so why go straight for the jugular?

No not acting like a dick at all. Come on - you're telling me that a client won't know its likely to cause a little bit of annoyance if they insist on only paying half a day - even if it is in the contract.

I've done gigs in the past flagged as PWD but 7.5 hours per day. Does this mean if the whole infrastructure goes belly up I walk out of the door at 7 hours 30 mins and 1 sec? Of course not but I could if I follow the letter of the contract.

NLUK - we're never going to agree about how to treat clients. You've got your ideas I've got mine. I've been in this game 25 years plus and been right royally shafted (mainly as a permie by employers) and seen some right p*ss taking twats.

Yeh there are one or two over the years that I have had issues with because, yes I am a stroppy twat at times, and things just didnt work out. They wanted it all one way and I wasn't willing to bend over and take it. Fair enough, I'll move on, you get another mug in - thats the beauty of contracting.

But, you might be surprised at this but 95% of all clients/employers I've ever had have been fine with me and my "attitude". Current client included where they don't take the piss, don't play games because they can get away with it. Consequently, I will do them favours if and when I can because of this.

[MrMarkyMark]

FTFY.

yes I am a total <modsnipped> all the time

[Willapp]

Turning to the ever reliable tradesman analogy, if you booked a builder for a day and he rocked up on-site and you had no power/water available as agreed, you would get charged for the whole day.

The problem with these analogies is that what most IT contractors do isn't really equatable to how tradesmen work. I don't doubt that if a builder had priced your job based on it taking 5 days, and couldn't work one of those days for something that was (arguably) your fault then they might charge extra if they couldn't fill that day with other work because they've probably incurred costs in having employees idle who were supposed to be doing your job. Most IT contracts are pretty clear on the "no work, no pay" and it's often cited as a good IR35 indicator so we can't have it both ways.

Yes I'd be frustrated if this happened to me but I would never submit a time-sheet for a whole day if I was only on site for half of it - that's basically fraud as it's submitting false information.

[northernladuk]

No not acting like a dick at all. Come on - you're telling me that a client won't know its likely to cause a little bit of annoyance if they insist on only paying half a day - even if it is in the contract.

I've done gigs in the past flagged as PWD but 7.5 hours per day. Does this mean if the whole infrastructure goes belly up I walk out of the door at 7 hours 30 mins and 1 sec? Of course not but I could if I follow the letter of the contract.

NLUK - we're never going to agree about how to treat clients. You've got your ideas I've got mine. I've been in this game 25 years plus and been right royally shafted (mainly as a permie by employers) and seen some right p*ss taking twats.

Yeh there are one or two over the years that I have had issues with because, yes I am a stroppy twat at times, and things just didnt work out. They wanted it all one way and I wasn't willing to bend over and take it. Fair enough, I'll move on, you get another mug in - thats the beauty of contracting.

But, you might be surprised at this but 95% of all clients/employers I've ever had have been fine with me and my "attitude". Current client included where they don't take the piss, don't play games because they can get away with it. Consequently, I will do them favours if and when I can because of this.

It might cause a bit of annoyance but you've got to appreciate a total power outage is a bit beyond their control. I'm big enough to deal with a bit of annoyance during contracts as there are plenty of positives to take from them as well. Why do you think it's right for one small annoyance for you pull your horns in and offer nothing but the contract and being perceived as an idiot by the client? We work in a service industry. Keeping the client sweet is a very valuable tactic and we get paid more than enough to deal with little annoyances without starting to act like permies or spoilt children. Why not just rise above it one time rather than spitting your dummy out?

Why are you letting issues in perm dictate your professionalism in the contracting world. They couldn't be any different. Sadly it's fairly obvious you haven't shaken your permie approach which is probably why you are still bitter.

So say as long as clients don't take the piss... that appears to be a very low threshold to you. As soon as you do it all goes wrong and it's back to contract wording. That's hardly a professional attitude and you should rising above it all because you are better contractor than the others and have a better attitude than all the permies. There is a threshold yes but this example should not be it.

You say I've got my view. You constantly fail to see all the other people that pile in to your posts. It isn't just me, its many other people.. and the ones that can't be arsed posting. You are the only one in this thread of I don't know how many posts that has taken this stance for example. Does that never occur to you?

[northernladuk]

Turning to the ever reliable tradesman analogy, if you booked a builder for a day and he rocked up on-site and you had no power/water available as agreed, you would get charged for the whole day.

Not if you had it detailed in black and white in the contract. Jesus Christ, why can't people get this?

So I would agree that in principle you do have a case for charging. I certainly would have put in a whole day on the time sheet, when the client pushed back I would have reduced it to half a day and left it at that. If I felt the client wasn't really playing nice, then it would be time to review the contract notice periods and look to see how I could move on and do better somewhere else.

I certainly would not push it with HR or my Agency as this isn't going to get you anything but grief.

It's half a day with a power outage the client has no control over. What the hell can they do? I expect you are not allowed in a building with no power for H&S reasons. What can they do? You have to go home and don't work as detailed in the contract. What is with this going to war with what is probably a perfectly decent client over one small hiccup that could be easily worked out with a bit of flexibility when you get back.

Unbelievable.

[Contreras]

Turning to the ever reliable tradesman analogy, if you booked a builder for a day and he rocked up on-site and you had no power/water available as agreed, you would get charged for the whole day.

The builder would also understand there are hidden costs in doing business and, when you rejected his invoice, would have to decide whether to:
- suck it up
- compromise (e.g. bill half day)
- or walk.

In the worst case scenario lawyers might get involved.

None of these options are unreasonable - it would depend upon circumstances, the client relationship, value of future goodwill, effect on reputation, etc.

[CoolCat]

I was sent home mid way through a day by the safety wardens ordering everyone home as there was a massive gas leak (industrial gas quantities not just domestic).

We all booked normal full days and got paid because there were no managers there and they didn't know about it until weeks after we had been paid anyways.

Seemed fair enough at the time, didn't cross my mind to book half a day when everyone else was booking full days.

We could have claimed to be working at home but I doubt anyone was actually.

Swings and roundabouts.