Expenses - bit dodgy this one but its not me

[psychocandy]

Lets just start off with saying, Im all up for things like JSA but this seems a bit much even for me.
It is not me (before anyone starts) - its someone I know but it did get me thinking.

Anyway, A has a contract 50 miles away but gets the train which costs £20.
But instead of claiming for the train, he claims 100 miles x 45p = £45 and obviously pays for the train himself. (He also claims for bridge toll that he doesn't use).

So, £25 per day that hes now not paying tax on.20 days per month = £500 = £100 saved in CT.

Like I said, dodgy but his rationale - how on earth are HMRC going to find out and I think he has a point....
Fair enough claiming for journeys that you dont make is a bit dodgy but surely he can prove hes got a contract at location X and prove he was in that day if it ever comes down to it. How are they ever going to know his mode of transport? Its not as if someone is going to check the mileage on his and/or wait outside his house to see if he gets into his car or not, is it?

Of course, only works for journeys where train journey is cheap like this. Get the feeling this won't always be the case but its an interesting idea. (but then again I guess so is bank robbery!)

[Pondlife]

Lets just start off with saying, Im all up for things like JSA but this seems a bit much even for me.
It is not me (before anyone starts) - its someone I know but it did get me thinking.

Anyway, A has a contract 50 miles away but gets the train which costs £20.
But instead of claiming for the train, he claims 100 miles x 45p = £45 and obviously pays for the train himself. (He also claims for bridge toll that he doesn't use).

So, £25 per day that hes now not paying tax on.20 days per month = £500 = £100 saved in CT.

Like I said, dodgy but his rationale - how on earth are HMRC going to find out and I think he has a point....
Fair enough claiming for journeys that you dont make is a bit dodgy but surely he can prove hes got a contract at location X and prove he was in that day if it ever comes down to it. How are they ever going to know his mode of transport? Its not as if someone is going to check the mileage on his and/or wait outside his house to see if he gets into his car or not, is it?

Of course, only works for journeys where train journey is cheap like this. Get the feeling this won't always be the case but its an interesting idea. (but then again I guess so is bank robbery!)

What about the bridge toll receipts?

Once he can't produce those the fine-tooth combs come out I should imagine.

[The Spartan]

How can he prove that he pays the bridge fee for one and what about fuel receipts? Granted it may never be checked but it was I'm sure said person would be on a hiding to nothing. Thing is, is it really worth it? Some may say yes but I believe in Karma so I tend to play it by the book with everything and if I have the slightest doubt I consult my accountant.

[psychocandy]

You only get a bridge receipt if you ask, dont you? I guess he just claims without?

I've got a TAG so if I work on the dark side of the river, I just use the statement for this. but then again, no-one has ever asked to see receipts etc.

What do you mean about fuel receipts? Its a flat rate so you dont need receipts.... I dont keep these anyway.

[ContrataxLtd]

Lets just start off with saying, Im all up for things like JSA but this seems a bit much even for me.
It is not me (before anyone starts) - its someone I know but it did get me thinking.

Anyway, A has a contract 50 miles away but gets the train which costs £20.
But instead of claiming for the train, he claims 100 miles x 45p = £45 and obviously pays for the train himself. (He also claims for bridge toll that he doesn't use).

So, £25 per day that hes now not paying tax on.20 days per month = £500 = £100 saved in CT.

Like I said, dodgy but his rationale - how on earth are HMRC going to find out and I think he has a point....
Fair enough claiming for journeys that you dont make is a bit dodgy but surely he can prove hes got a contract at location X and prove he was in that day if it ever comes down to it. How are they ever going to know his mode of transport? Its not as if someone is going to check the mileage on his and/or wait outside his house to see if he gets into his car or not, is it?

Of course, only works for journeys where train journey is cheap like this. Get the feeling this won't always be the case but its an interesting idea. (but then again I guess so is bank robbery!)

Hi Psychocandy

So the long and short of it is that your friend is committing tax fraud!

Regardless of whether he will get caught or not and the rational behind justifying it it's still fraud at the end of the day so it's a stupid idea. Why not just go the whole hog and come up with a different longer route so more miles can be claimed fraudulently because all your friend is actually saving is about £600 in tax over a year (he soon hits 10,000 miles then it's only a fiver a day 'saving') which hardly seems worth risking big penalties/interest for.

I'll sit back and wait for NLUK to see this thread now

Martin
Contratax Ltd

[The Spartan]

You only get a bridge receipt if you ask, dont you? I guess he just claims without?

I've got a TAG so if I work on the dark side of the river, I just use the statement for this. but then again, no-one has ever asked to see receipts etc.

What do you mean about fuel receipts? Its a flat rate so you dont need receipts.... I dont keep these anyway.

I get a receipt everytime I travel back on Friday, though I always pay by card so if I do forget my statement is a fallback. I have a stack of fuel receipts and was always told to keep them and it does make sense otherwise how can you prove your mileage?

[Pondlife]

You only get a bridge receipt if you ask, dont you? I guess he just claims without?

I've got a TAG so if I work on the dark side of the river, I just use the statement for this. but then again, no-one has ever asked to see receipts etc.

What do you mean about fuel receipts? Its a flat rate so you dont need receipts.... I dont keep these anyway.

Exactly. What sort of person tries to claim for an expense where a receipt is a button press away, without one.

Just because you/he haven't been investigated, doesn't mean you won't be in the future. Alternatively, if you don't care about the ramifications of an investigation by the taxman, why stop at a couple of quid for the bridge. If you're going down this road then your mate needs to up his game and start looking at 4K TVs.

[oliverson]

Exactly. What sort of person tries to claim for an expense where a receipt is a button press away, without one.

Just because you/he haven't been investigated, doesn't mean you won't be in the future. Alternatively, if you don't care about the ramifications of an investigation by the taxman, why stop at a couple of quid for the bridge. If you're going down this road then your mate needs to up his game and start looking at 4K TVs.

Nothing wrong with claiming for a 4K display (or any other kind of display) as a business expense. When I walk around the building here there are dozens of large screen TV's hanging off the ceilings and walls. I doubt the owners of the company have paid for them out of their own personal cash.

[Pondlife]

Nothing wrong with claiming for a 4K display (or any other kind of display) as a business expense. When I walk around the building here there are dozens of large screen TV's hanging off the ceilings and walls. I doubt the owners of the company have paid for them out of their own personal cash.

FFS, and how many potential customers visit your living room? I'm sure it's more than enough to justify a 4k TV to say "Oliverson Co welcomes Mr Hector Taxman (HMRC)" Or does it just loop the Oliverson Co motivational video you made with the HD video camera you no doubt also claimed for.

[JRCT]

I think this is fine, actually. I do it often, not because it saves me money, necessarily. It's just easier. I sometimes drive, I sometimes go on the train, I sometimes drive there and train back.

The 45p per mile allowance takes into account wear and tear - not just fuel - and I don't think it REALLY costs you 45p per mile, so it's not an exact science.

There's a car hire place near me that gives an example journey on their website.

ie. You can hire our car for a business meeting to travel from A to B. Fuel included. Total cost is £X per day.

As you can claim 45p per mile on your expenses, you will save £Y per day.

I don't think ANYONE would use their services and only claim £X (the cost). You would claim the 45p per mile.

The journey is legit. It's not the same as going the long way round or buying a £4k tv or taking your wife to a hotel for a 'business meeting'.