Expenses - bit dodgy this one but its not me

[jmo21]

It is fiddling expenses, pure and simple.

PC's point is straightforward - how likely is chummy to get caught?

PC - you may be right, this may be highly unlikely, though the lack of toll receipts isn't going to help him.

This wouldn't be the worst expense fiddle the world has ever seen, never mind the worst tax fiddle.

Is it worth the risk for however much he might make across the 10,000 mile limit? Probably not I'd say.

[malvolio]

Easier or fraudulent? I know which way I look at it. Rule 1 of staying off HMRC's radar is don't take liberties with the system.

BTW, have you expert technogeeks never heard of ANPR? Piece of micturition output to discover whether or not you made a claimed journey these days...

[ContrataxLtd]

Totally agree with everything said here but I still fear theres no way in a million years HMRC are going to be able to pin anything on him even if he gets investgated. For instance,

HMRC: OK. You claimed 100 miles per day from this date to this date travelling from home to client. Prove it.
Contractor: OK, heres the contract, showing office address, you know my address, you have the dates. Heres my signed timesheet showing I attended on these days. So there we are - 100 mile according to google maps.
HMRC: Ummm. OK. Prove you used your car then and didnt just catch the train etc etc etc.
Contractor: Prove I didnt drive.

Impossible to prove. AFAIK there is no requirement to give HMRC mileage on your car, proof using fuel receipts etc. Ultimately (althoiugh I bet they cant do this) they could ask you to show credit card etc to show fuel but that proves nothing -occasionally you use cash.

But then I guess mileage its so easy to fiddle mileage.....

I completely agree that in this situation it would be very hard for HMRC to actually prove you didn't do the mileage, but likewise, it would be very hard for your friend to prove he did also and could easily end up in tribunal with the right (or wrong whichever way you look at it) inspector on your case, especially if he finds multiple toll claims without supporting evidence. It doesn't change the fact that it is fraud (even if it's easy to get away with).

Not sure if many permie employers would be that bothered if you claimed mileage but instead took the bus.

Also, same thing, potentially how would they know?

Again, they probably wouldn't but why risk your job if they did find out. Assume your friend was employed and did this, potentially his employer would be paying him around £3k per year more in expenses than he'd actually incurred. If i was his boss I'd be pretty pee'd off and I don't think he'd last too long!

Martin
Contratax Ltd

[The Spartan]

Good point. Its only 45p up to 10000 and 100 miles day will soon eat that up.

£50 a month = not worth the risk. Dont think hes twigged this yet - I think hes only been doing it a few months so not at 10000 miles yet.

Totally agree with everything said here but I still fear theres no way in a million years HMRC are going to be able to pin anything on him even if he gets investgated. For instance,

HMRC: OK. You claimed 100 miles per day from this date to this date travelling from home to client. Prove it.
Contractor: OK, heres the contract, showing office address, you know my address, you have the dates. Heres my signed timesheet showing I attended on these days. So there we are - 100 mile according to google maps.
HMRC: Ummm. OK. Prove you used your car then and didnt just catch the train etc etc etc.
Contractor: Prove I didnt drive.

Impossible to prove. AFAIK there is no requirement to give HMRC mileage on your car, proof using fuel receipts etc. Ultimately (althoiugh I bet they cant do this) they could ask you to show credit card etc to show fuel but that proves nothing -occasionally you use cash.

But then I guess mileage its so easy to fiddle mileage.....

I worked for client once and deal was I would go to their customer site once every two weeks - it was in contract. Also, it was an inclusive rate (no expenses paid for this). Ended up only going 3/4 times in 2 years (I didnt complain - it was 100 miles away). I only claimed what I did but who would have known if I'd claimed for a trip every two weeks - it was in the contract after all and HMRC would never know which office I was in ever.

Yet all this information is easily obtainable with little or no effort

Personal car mileage is recorded when the car has an MOT.
Financial transactions both place and time cash withdrawal or electronic payments can easily be spotted on from bank statements.

In this day and age it's not hard to put 2 + 2 together.

[northernladuk]

The onus is on you to prove the expense WAS occurred, not for the tax man to prove it didn't.

Your whole outlook on this seems IMHO to be, How much can I lie before getting caught.

You know it's dodgy or you wouldn't have created the thread... again, just my opinion.

+1 to this.

If you ever get in a situation where the tax man decides he is going to prove it you are pretty much buggered. The vaseline and gloves will be coming out. I wonder how many other things he will find. Horrible situation to be avoided at all costs, particularly for so little.

If PC knew it would be dodgy he wouldn't be arguing it...

[Midland White]

I think this is fine, actually. I do it often, not because it saves me money, necessarily. It's just easier. I sometimes drive, I sometimes go on the train, I sometimes drive there and train back.

The 45p per mile allowance takes into account wear and tear - not just fuel - and I don't think it REALLY costs you 45p per mile, so it's not an exact science.

There's a car hire place near me that gives an example journey on their website.

ie. You can hire our car for a business meeting to travel from A to B. Fuel included. Total cost is £X per day.

As you can claim 45p per mile on your expenses, you will save £Y per day.

I don't think ANYONE would use their services and only claim £X (the cost). You would claim the 45p per mile.

The journey is legit. It's not the same as going the long way round or buying a £4k tv or taking your wife to a hotel for a 'business meeting'.

If easier is what you want then don't claim any travel expenses at all - zero admin. Thought not! Seriously......fraud pure and simple.

[oliverson]

I'm not the one you'd need to convince. IF you were ever investigated you'd have to convince the taxman that the TV/playstation in your living room, assuming that's where it is and not in a lab rigged up top a load of test kit, is wholly and exclusively used for business. If it were me I would laugh in your face and then proceed to demand receipts and a justification for every expense for the past six years.

How many playstation apps have you written, just out of interest?

I've already written one application. It's called 'Hello World'.

Not in the living room, in a dedicated room.

[Pondlife]

I've already written one application. It's called 'Hello World'.

Not in the living room, in a dedicated room.

mmmm ok, good one.

[oliverson]

Yet all this information is easily obtainable with little or no effort

Personal car mileage is recorded when the car has an MOT.
Financial transactions both place and time cash withdrawal or electronic payments can easily be spotted on from bank statements.

In this day and age it's not hard to put 2 + 2 together.

If your car needs an MOT you need to look at your day rate!

[Midland White]

So a contractor 'colleague' openly tells you he does this. I wonder if they shoot their mouth of liberally on a regular basis. It is widely known a lot of HMRC investigations start with a nod from a disgruntled or jealous informant.