Reply to: Expenses - bit dodgy this one but its not me

[SussexSeagull]

I have never kept fuel receipts, but then again I have only ever claimed for legitimate mileage so could go back to bank statements if need be.

[BolshieBastard]

This is the downside of forums. The points have been highlighted but people endlessly argue the point.

If you want to claim mileage when using the train, pushbike, walking or whatever, do it. But dont clog up the forum with "I dont know what to do. HMRC are investigating me and say I shouldnt have claimed....." type posts.

[JRCT]

Agreed, but if your claiming 24,000 miles of private milage on £150 of reciepts you may have a bit of an issue ....

But you wouldn't. You'd prove 24,000 miles of private mileage on a car that has travelled more than 24,000 miles.

What if you had an electric car or a pushbike*? How would you prove that with receipts? You can still claim a mileage allowance.

*I could have posted this in the 'words you use that give away your age' thread.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Agreed, but if your claiming 24,000 miles of private milage on £150 of reciepts you may have a bit of an issue ....

That's why I don't even bother. If I don't need them then I won't run the risk of discrepancies being used against me. If I've attended a client site 100 miles away for a year, then that's sufficient for me to demonstrate a legitimate 44k mile claim - unless I'm also putting in a shed load of train ticket claims too.

[NickNick]

Ha ha. Didnt think of that.

Bet it wasnt easy to get hold of CCTV footage though.

Remember someone claimed whiplash injuries when I reversed out of space in tesco express and nicked their door (50p size dent). 3mph tops and woman was fine (until she got home and husband could see nice little earner). Wasnt bothered about the damages to her car - it was my fault but someone claiming £5K for nothing did wind me up a bit.

Tescos wouldnt release the CCTV footage and my insurer werent interested in pushing it. So she got £5K personal injury for nothing.

Yours was a civil case though, my friend was a criminal case. They had the CCTV before they charged him.

[malvolio]

But a petrol receipt has no correlation to the mileage you claim. Unless you fill up each day for the exact mileage that you're travelling.

It's like claiming for lunches with your weekly shopping receipt from Tesco.

It's all about proof of purchase, that's all. As long as you can demonstrate you bought fuel during the period claimed for, there's no problem.

Never ever try to apply logic to HMRC, it's absolutely pointless trying. They always start from the premise you're fiddling something and it's up to you to prove you aren't.

[JRCT]

It is slightly grey, you do if you're using umbrella but don't if you're using a limited company. I personally keep them as I've nothing to hide and can backup any expenditure from the company and it's no real extra effort so I'll continue to do so.

But a petrol receipt has no correlation to the mileage you claim. Unless you fill up each day for the exact mileage that you're travelling.

It's like claiming for lunches with your weekly shopping receipt from Tesco.

[The Spartan]

This is clearly a very grey area, but one thing that is absolute - you do not have to provide petrol/ diesel receipts. That is a fact.

It is slightly grey, you do if you're using umbrella but don't if you're using a limited company. I personally keep them as I've nothing to hide and can backup any expenditure from the company and it's no real extra effort so I'll continue to do so.

[The Spartan]

The only thing I would say to you is to get it in writing; it's not unheard of to get 2 different opinions from 2 different people at HMRC on the same day - if you have written confirmation you will be covered

Exactly I had huge problems with HMRC when I was out in Switzerland everyone I spoke to told me that I'd have to pay UK tax when I got back, even though their own rules said otherwise. Finally I spoke to one of their senior advisers who actually knew all about the Statutory Residence Test and the criteria who agreed my understanding was right and then issued a letter to me confirming I wasn't liable for UK taxes. It took over 6 months of dealing with HMRC to get this sorted so as for them getting back to you within 24 hours yeah whatever.

[JRCT]

They will ask for petrol/diesel reciepts to cover the milage, this will be followed by questions about what car you drove over that period and the milage when you bought and sold the car. 2,000 miles a month will produce some evidence in terms of car costs and wear and tear.

The .45p a mile is an allowance against your private use of a car, this doesn't remove the requirement to prove your costs.

I think this will be easier to pickup by HMRC than your "friend" thinks.

This is clearly a very grey area, but one thing that is absolute - you do not have to provide petrol/ diesel receipts. That is a fact.

[psychocandy]

Not impossible to prove train travel in the slightest. A friend ended up in court years ago and as part of the process they produced video evidence that the did indeed get on the train on certain days.
All it takes is for HMRC to have the suspicion that it happened and request the cctv footage.

Whether any of this would happen in (what appears to be) a relatively small matter is another matter.

Ha ha. Didnt think of that.

Bet it wasnt easy to get hold of CCTV footage though.

Remember someone claimed whiplash injuries when I reversed out of space in tesco express and nicked their door (50p size dent). 3mph tops and woman was fine (until she got home and husband could see nice little earner). Wasnt bothered about the damages to her car - it was my fault but someone claiming £5K for nothing did wind me up a bit.

Tescos wouldnt release the CCTV footage and my insurer werent interested in pushing it. So she got £5K personal injury for nothing.

[NickNick]

Interesting that they admit they cant prove it either way. As suspected they werent intested. Still not sure if I would have phoned them though.

Like I said, its impossible to prove whether you get the train or drive. As long as you can prove you travelled from A to B then nothing is ever going to happen IMHO. Surely HMRC have got enough trouble catching people who claim for totally made up journeys (if they even bother with this as well) to bother with people who change the mode of transport....

Not impossible to prove train travel in the slightest. A friend ended up in court years ago and as part of the process they produced video evidence that the did indeed get on the train on certain days.
All it takes is for HMRC to have the suspicion that it happened and request the cctv footage.

Whether any of this would happen in (what appears to be) a relatively small matter is another matter.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I just had a call back from HMRC on this. Very good start as, yesterday, they said it would be within 3 days.

I was completely honest with him about this. I explained that I claim mileage for my c70 mile round trip each day, whether I get the train or not. I told him that I'd worked out over the year that the difference was £2.16 per day. I also explained that my motivation was to just make this easy for myself rather than financial gain. I also said there were plenty of things that I don't claim for, which I could.

He said that this was not a problem. They're not interested in people who are trying to do the right thing and that even in an investigation if I said I drove every day, they couldn't prove otherwise. As long as the journey was wholly and exlusively for business (which it is) he's happy. He was also happy that even if I was up £2.16 a day, then they're not interested in that kind of number and he's fully aware that there's always other stuff that I could add in that would counterbalance this.

So, all you that are worried about Mr H, don't be. He's lovely.

The only thing I would say to you is to get it in writing; it's not unheard of to get 2 different opinions from 2 different people at HMRC on the same day - if you have written confirmation you will be covered

[psychocandy]

I just had a call back from HMRC on this. Very good start as, yesterday, they said it would be within 3 days.

I was completely honest with him about this. I explained that I claim mileage for my c70 mile round trip each day, whether I get the train or not. I told him that I'd worked out over the year that the difference was £2.16 per day. I also explained that my motivation was to just make this easy for myself rather than financial gain. I also said there were plenty of things that I don't claim for, which I could.

He said that this was not a problem. They're not interested in people who are trying to do the right thing and that even in an investigation if I said I drove every day, they couldn't prove otherwise. As long as the journey was wholly and exlusively for business (which it is) he's happy. He was also happy that even if I was up £2.16 a day, then they're not interested in that kind of number and he's fully aware that there's always other stuff that I could add in that would counterbalance this.

So, all you that are worried about Mr H, don't be. He's lovely.

Interesting that they admit they cant prove it either way. As suspected they werent intested. Still not sure if I would have phoned them though.

Like I said, its impossible to prove whether you get the train or drive. As long as you can prove you travelled from A to B then nothing is ever going to happen IMHO. Surely HMRC have got enough trouble catching people who claim for totally made up journeys (if they even bother with this as well) to bother with people who change the mode of transport....

[SpontaneousOrder]

So, all you that are worried about Mr H, don't be. He's lovely.

He also suffers from multiple personality disorder.