Are Brexiters really so insecure

[woohoo]

Are you saying that it's a hard Brexit, set up border check points in NI, no agreements, send the foreigners home?

Is that what you voted for?

I'm not sure if border check points would be setup, in fact I would be surprised. I really wonder who would put the checkpoints up. Instead of wondering, tell me who is going to put the checkpoints up in NI?

I'm all for agreements, in fact we should have spent the last couple of years making sure administrative issues etc have been sorted. To be fair this has been done to some extent.

I would like a points system for migration but I wouldn't send anyone home that was here already. I think that would be unjust, I believe reciprocal rights would be the one thing the UK/EU agreed on.

[woohoo]

Leaving the EU and joining EFTA is consistent with leaving the EU. As is leaving the EU with no deal. I appreciate that many people would strongly disagree with either of these outcomes but a referendum could settle it democratically.

I agree its a possible future outcome. But it would be something separate from leaving the EU. I think it's not a great plan to emulate the Norway option but regardless it's separate from leaving the EU.

[Old Greg]

I agree its a possible future outcome. But it would be something separate from leaving the EU. I think it's not a great plan to emulate the Norway option but regardless it's separate from leaving the EU.

You may as well say that no deal or customs union or FTA are separate from leaving the EU. There is some truth to that but the destination needs to be decided before leaving the EU. So there is a three stage process.

1 decide to leave - referendum 1
2 decide on post-leaving arrangement (destination) - referendum 2
3 leave for the destination

[woohoo]

You may as well say that no deal or customs union or FTA are separate from leaving the EU. There is some truth to that but the destination needs to be decided before leaving the EU. So there is a three stage process.

1 decide to leave - referendum 1
2 decide on post-leaving arrangement (destination) - referendum 2
3 leave for the destination

I don't agree with your first statement.

A no deal is the default option for leaving the EU. Now you can talk about minimising disruption etc and put in agreements for that. You could even talk about a trade agreement. But that's different from not leaving or partially leaving (which is the worst of all options).

[meridian]

I don't agree with your first statement.

A no deal is the default option for leaving the EU. Now you can talk about minimising disruption etc and put in agreements for that. You could even talk about a trade agreement. But that's different from not leaving or partially leaving (which is the worst of all options).

*sigh*. No it is not. The default under Article 50 is to negotiate and conclude an agreement setting out the arrangements for the Withdrawal. A50 is silent on what would happen if one of the parties to the treaty fails to agree or ratify the Withdrawal agreement.

[Old Greg]

I don't agree with your first statement.

A no deal is the default option for leaving the EU. Now you can talk about minimising disruption etc and put in agreements for that. You could even talk about a trade agreement. But that's different from not leaving or partially leaving (which is the worst of all options).

EFTA is not partially leaving. It is leaving. Norway is not an EU member and has voted against joining the EU. The referendum was to leave the EU. You don't like it and I understand that but it is leaving the EU. Others do like it. A referendum will sort it out.

[meridian]

If anyone’s interested in the history of it, including what was in the campaign, there’s a long and informative thread here:

Steve Analyst on Twitter: "Hello Mr Morgan,

I’ve just seen this tweet. I don’t know if you were out of the country at the time, but let me respectfully explain why this isn’t a fair reflection of what the referendum was about, and therefore what people "voted for"....… https://t.co/AxNrpMHszn"

[NotAllThere]

EFTA is not partially leaving. It is leaving. Norway is not an EU member and has voted against joining the EU. The referendum was to leave the EU. You don't like it and I understand that but it is leaving the EU. Others do like it. A referendum will sort it out.

Doesn't matter. EFTA won't want the UK to join anyway.

[WTFH]

I'm not sure if border check points would be setup, in fact I would be surprised. I really wonder who would put the checkpoints up. Instead of wondering, tell me who is going to put the checkpoints up in NI?

Well, if the UK does not want free movement of people and goods with the EU, then the UK would put up the border.
If the UK wants free movement of people and goods, then the UK needs to negotiate that.

Without an agreement, there is a border, it's how nations work, unless perhaps you know some other way of having a border between two countries that have no agreement on the movement of people and goods between them.

[woohoo]

*sigh*. No it is not. The default under Article 50 is to negotiate and conclude an agreement setting out the arrangements for the Withdrawal. A50 is silent on what would happen if one of the parties to the treaty fails to agree or ratify the Withdrawal agreement.

I disagree. You could argue that revoking article 50 is an option, you could. But we had a legally binding date that was extended on the 29th and the legal default was leaving without a deal on that date.