Brexiters - you lost, get over it.

[Mordac]

After endless discussion on this forum you still just can't get it can you? No wonder we had a Leave result.

The choice is

1) Remain on far worse terms - we would be on worse terms but largely a question of no longer influencing direction. There will still be 27 countries steering the bloc. The UK was just inclined to cause trouble anyway.
2) Leave on WTO terms (and pay nothing) - No, you can't avoid paying outstanding contributions. They are a legal obligation. Do you want the UK to be a criminal domain??. And nobody said we need to choose WTO terms. It's not clear what that would mean (you persistently try and oversimplify things due to your lack of intelligence). Canada and Norway are templates that could be developed.
3) Remain - have a referendum to allow everyone to cancel Brexit and keep all the things we enjoy now.

Brexiteers wanted Leave but all the democratic processes that would carry that desire forward have failed to see any sensible way of doing it given the level of integration we have with the EU. It's nothing to do with tariffs and quotas and 'deals'. It is frictionless trade that - surprise, surprise - can't be replicated.

That won't happen - we must be punished. We will have to surrender what's left of out veto powers, our fishing rights, and most likely our £10billion net contribution will become the £20billion gross we actually pay (i.e. we won't get anything back).

[Cirrus]

We both believe in opposite sides of the "big argument". You have to resort to personal insults (which bother me not, just so you know) which would indicate a lack of cognitive ability* on your part. *Amongst other things

No Mordac, you persistently demonstrate you don't understand what's going on. You persistently come up with half-baked, half-brained statements. You need to listen more carefully to what we are telling you and stop trying to coming up with your own ideas. What sasguru is suggesting is maybe this spills over into your professional life. We sincerely hope not.

[WTFH]

That won't happen - we must be punished. We will have to surrender what's left of out veto powers, our fishing rights, and most likely our £10billion net contribution will become the £20billion gross we actually pay (i.e. we won't get anything back).

You've based this on what? Is it some kind of scare story you have been told to believe, or is there factual evidence it will happen?

[Paddy]

What has shocked me is extreme brexiters who have not moved an inch in 30 years are now saying that they did not realise how complicated the UK is intertwined with the EU and how difficult brexit will be. Whereas a second referendum was scoffed at a couple of years ago, it is now becoming inevitable.

What should be discussed is the terms of a new binding referendum. Eg, leavers must get a least a two thirds majority.

[Mordac]

You've based this on what? Is it some kind of scare story you have been told to believe, or is there factual evidence it will happen?

Based on the direction of travel. In response to "we can just revoke A50 and all go back to how things were" I maintain that it won't be like that. There has to be, and there will be, some form of retribution, because that's how politicians roll. Especially unelected politicians.
Do you seriously believe we might be able to revoke A50, and pretend all this never happened? Without any consequences? Really?

[WTFH]

Based on the direction of travel. In response to "we can just revoke A50 and all go back to how things were" I maintain that it won't be like that. There has to be, and there will be, some form of retribution, because that's how politicians roll. Especially unelected politicians.

Based on the direction of travel of a big red bus, where all the people who convinced (and continue to convince) through their lies and deceit that it's a good idea, the direction of the bus was set a couple of years ago. All the original drivers etc have got off and are in hiding or working out how to make money from it. The people you voted for are not interested in the future of this country. They are hell bent on blaming, causing division and convinced that we need to get more extreme.

Do you seriously believe we might be able to revoke A50, and pretend all this never happened? Without any consequences? Really?

Did I say that, or was I just asking you where you got your Project Doom from?

[BlasterBates]

Has anyone noticed how Boris has now moved under the radar. Where is the standard bearer of Brexit as everything comes to a head.

[original PM]

Based on the direction of travel. In response to "we can just revoke A50 and all go back to how things were" I maintain that it won't be like that. There has to be, and there will be, some form of retribution, because that's how politicians roll. Especially unelected politicians.
Do you seriously believe we might be able to revoke A50, and pretend all this never happened? Without any consequences? Really?

Based on the direction of travel of a big red bus, where all the people who convinced (and continue to convince) through their lies and deceit that it's a good idea, the direction of the bus was set a couple of years ago. All the original drivers etc have got off and are in hiding or working out how to make money from it. The people you voted for are not interested in the future of this country. They are hell bent on blaming, causing division and convinced that we need to get more extreme.




Did I say that, or was I just asking you where you got your Project Doom from?

Nobody has said it directly but I think that the assumption is that if we decide we do not like it then we can just say sorry and all will be okay.

Because that's how snowflakes roll - ooh I made a mistake but now we are all friends again we will forget about it.

That is one of my frustrations with the remain lot - once the vote went to Brexit you needed to get your head around it and get into the game

where as you have all sat about telling everyone how stupid they are and you can see the future of the UK and it will be rubbish compared to what it would have been had we stayed in the EU.

So like the title of the thread - you lost, get over it.

[Mordac]

No Mordac, you persistently demonstrate you don't understand what's going on. You persistently come up with half-baked, half-brained statements. You need to listen more carefully to what we are telling you and stop trying to coming up with your own ideas. What sasguru is suggesting is maybe this spills over into your professional life. We sincerely hope not.

What you (specifically) are telling me is that there is no alternative to "bending over and just taking it, it's just how things are". I don't believe that to be the case. Perhaps we should agree to differ. And my professional life is unaffected, not that it's any of your fecking business, or Sas's.
What really rankles is your sense of entitlement. You feel you are so in the right that anyone who dares to question must be wrong. I'm probably guilty of the same, but looking at the way the EU is heading, I feel more confident of being proved right than wrong. I may live long enough to be smug (although I'm magnanimous enough not to be so) or I may not. What I won't do, however, is call you a gammon or a mince or a half-brained halfwit, because that doesn't advance the discussion. What you should be doing, instead of calling 17.4million voters thick twats, is wondering why they all voted for something you feel is unthinkable.
Maybe you're looking at Europe through rose-tinted spectacles, and you only see what you want to see. I'm seeing where we've come from, and where we're heading, and I want no part of it.

[Cirrus]

You feel you are so in the right that anyone who dares to question must be wrong.

I appreciate as a Remainer I am rubbing it in a bit. We were 3-0 down but then towards the 90th minute we find ourselves 6-3 up. When that happens, you like to let the opposition know.

What you should be doing, instead of calling 17.4million voters thick twats, is wondering why they all voted for something you feel is unthinkable.

Once again you've not followed what I said. I said Brexiteers are not thick or twats. They are gamblers. They listen to what they want to hear and the enjoy taking punts without regard for the true risks. I find that unacceptable when they are gambling the family pay packet rather than their own pocket money.

Maybe you're looking at Europe through rose-tinted spectacles I'm seeing where we're heading, and I want no part of it.

The thing you have to separate in you mind is a) whether you like the EU or not (I'm not a fan), and b) whether just because some lightweight prat of a prime minister announces a referendum, and loads of people spout off stuff which is self evidently distorted and flawed, that there is in anyway a real and valid opportunity for you to achieve your wishes.

We've argued at length that the EU isn't what most people paint it and that 'free trade' is a completely vacuous dream but what's equally ridiculous about voting Leave was the utter impossibility of even considering it without years and years - millions and millions of man hours - of analysis and preparation. As we know Dave Superprat Cameron forbade people doing any preparation as a cunning ploy to make it impossible for voters to opt for Brexit.

The referendum was not about remaining in the EU or setting up outside. It was about a nonsense dream. You should have ignored the appeal of the words and concentrated on the viability of the proposition.