May's speech

[WTFH]

You are missing the point.

Why is it not okay for a country to maintain certain things and be proud of who they are.

I mean it is literally getting to a point where unless you agree that white man is bad and everything else is good you are racist.

And evidently people are getting a little bit sick and tired of having their nations identity eroded by a bunch of socialist ******* who are stuck up the arse of the likes of Junker, Macron, Tusk etc because they are buying the utter bulltulip these people are spouting.

It is perfectly OK to maintain certain things and be proud of who you are. You need to talk to your local politicians - the ones you keep voting for - and ask them why they refused to implement the policies the EU has regarding borders, immigration, benefits, foreigners and all those other things that the EU gets blamed for.

It got tiring years ago reading the right wing posts on here of people who claim that anything left of Attila the Hun is a communist, that Corbyn is the reason the country is in the state it is in, that any news source is wrong if the Daily Wail doesn't agree with it, etc.

[original PM]

It is perfectly OK to maintain certain things and be proud of who you are. You need to talk to your local politicians - the ones you keep voting for - and ask them why they refused to implement the policies the EU has regarding borders, immigration, benefits, foreigners and all those other things that the EU gets blamed for.

It got tiring years ago reading the right wing posts on here of people who claim that anything left of Attila the Hun is a communist, that Corbyn is the reason the country is in the state it is in, that any news source is wrong if the Daily Wail doesn't agree with it, etc.

Yeah that is probably the nail on the head - as I have said before often UK politicians hid behind alleged 'EU' rules to justify what went on.

Now they will not have that option!

[Whorty]

You are missing the point.

Why is it not okay for a country to maintain certain things and be proud of who they are.

I mean it is literally getting to a point where unless you agree that white man is bad and everything else is good you are racist.

And evidently people are getting a little bit sick and tired of having their nations identity eroded by a bunch of socialist ******* who are stuck up the arse of the likes of Junker, Macron, Tusk etc because they are buying the utter bulltulip these people are spouting.

Because, unfortunately, over the course of the last 3 or 4 centuries white man has generally been bad and treated the non white guy as trash (not just British white guys, we weren't the only bad guys). Now, I'm not saying we should constantly be apologising for the bad deeds done by our forefathers, but we should acknowledge that the wealth we enjoy as a country (through being a colonial superpower) came at the expense of others. We therefore have an obligation to help those nations, that previously we have raped and plundered, to get them further up the wealth and success ladder.

I get it that British nationalists that think we should go back to the 'good old days of the empire' won't agree with this but quite frankly they are idiots and yes, racists. To even think that we have the right to subdue other nations by force (which is how we go the empire!) is no better than what nazi Germany tried to do. The days of empire have gone, consigned to the past - we shouldn't forget about it but we should certainly learn from it. We are all humans and therefore all have a right to live a dignified life on this planet.

[cue a certain idiot snipping the above, making some yawn comment like "some bedwetting piffle" followed by half a dozen pointless emojis]

[original PM]

Because, unfortunately, over the course of the last 3 or 4 centuries white man has generally been bad and treated the non white guy as trash (not just British white guys, we weren't the only bad guys). Now, I'm not saying we should constantly be apologising for the bad deeds done by our forefathers, but we should acknowledge that the wealth we enjoy as a country (through being a colonial superpower) came at the expense of others. We therefore have an obligation to help those nations, that previously we have raped and plundered, to get them further up the wealth and success ladder.

I get it that British nationalists that think we should go back to the 'good old days of the empire' won't agree with this but quite frankly they are idiots and yes, racists. To even think that we have the right to subdue other nations by force (which is how we go the empire!) is no better than what nazi Germany tried to do. The days of empire have gone, consigned to the past - we shouldn't forget about it but we should certainly learn from it. We are all humans and therefore all have a right to live a dignified life on this planet.

[cue a certain idiot snipping the above, making some yawn comment like "some bedwetting piffle" followed by half a dozen pointless emojis]

The slave trade in Africa where black people have been selling black people has been going on since probably 500BC

and it still goes on today.


Which seems pretty bad - but it is only ever the white slavers you hear about.

The barbary pirates (who were from North Africa) raided southern Europe forcing white people into slavery - possibly up to 250,000 (Barbary pirates - Wikipedia) which is comparable to the approx 388,000 legally bought black slaves who ended up in North America.
(How Many Slaves Landed in the US?)

No you can argue whether being forced into slavery or being legally bought are different....

but....

[shaunbhoy]

Because, unfortunately, over the course of the last 3 or 4 centuries white man has generally been bad and treated the non white guy as trash (not just British white guys, we weren't the only bad guys).

What an absolute load of cobblers, a ridiculous over-generalisation of events. Just the sort of nonsense I'd expect from an ill-informed champagne socialist with an overdeveloped guilt complex.

Now, I'm not saying we should constantly be apologising for the bad deeds done by our forefathers, but we should acknowledge that the wealth we enjoy as a country (through being a colonial superpower) came at the expense of others.

Again, a farcical representation of reality. Just exactly who is this "we" that you are referring to? I think you will find that even at the height of our imperial powers, the average person in this country worked exceptionally hard and, despite this, was living in relative squalor.
If you are going to start pointing the finger at those who gained most from the Empire then at least research it and point your guns more accurately at the top few percent, who were also more than happy to disgracefully mistreat their own populace.

We therefore have an obligation to help those nations, that previously we have raped and plundered, to get them further up the wealth and success ladder.

In case you haven't been awake, we have been helping them. A damned sight more than most of the former colonial EU members too as it happens.

To even think that we have the right to subdue other nations by force (which is how we got the empire!) is no better than what nazi Germany tried to do. The days of empire have gone, consigned to the past - we shouldn't forget about it but we should certainly learn from it. We are all humans and therefore all have a right to live a dignified life on this planet.

Pretty sure that nobody thinks we have the right to do this. And nor have they thought this for generations now, but don't let that fact get in the way of your simpering nonsensical evaluations. Remind us again just what any of this hysterical vaporing has to do with our relationship with the EU?

[cue a certain more erudite contributor ripping huge holes in this dollop of "bedwetting irrelevant piffle" followed by half a dozen pointless emojis]

HTH

[Whorty]

The slave trade in Africa where black people have been selling black people has been going on since probably 500BC

and it still goes on today.


Which seems pretty bad - but it is only ever the white slavers you hear about.

The barbary pirates (who were from North Africa) raided southern Europe forcing white people into slavery - possibly up to 250,000 (Barbary pirates - Wikipedia) which is comparable to the approx 388,000 legally bought black slaves who ended up in North America.
(How Many Slaves Landed in the US?)

No you can argue whether being forced into slavery or being legally bought are different....

but....

Africa and slavery is only one small part of the history of our (and other nations) colonial history. Think India, China (opium wars fought over our desire to force China to sell us tea, FFS), the spice trade. It goes on. In Africa we did try at times to do the right thing, we were the first country to try and stop the slave trade.

You mention the US, but don't forget we helped to populate that continent with white man at the loss of the indigenous peoples (same for Oz and NZ), so whilst we can blame the US for the continuance of slavery, we helped create the problem in the first place (Mayflower ship ring a bell? First settlers?).

[Whorty]

What an absolute load of cobblers, a ridiculous over-generalisation of events. Just the sort of nonsense I'd expect from an ill-informed champagne socialist with an overdeveloped guilt complex.

Not really a fan of champagne, more of an ale man. Quite partial to an IPA .... now, where did that tipple get it's name? Which people were we subduing that we then wanted to send our beer over there to keep our army well imbibed?

Again, a farcical representation of reality. Just exactly who is this "we" that you are referring to? I think you will find that even at the height of our imperial powers, the average person in this country worked exceptionally hard and, despite this, was living in relative squalor.
If you are going to start pointing the finger at those who gained most from the Empire then at least research it and point your guns more accurately at the top few percent, who were also more than happy to disgracefully mistreat their own populace.

The 'we' are the British. Whilst not all Brits made wealth during the colonial times, the general wealth of the nation did improve vastly compared to many nations, and certainly more than those that we had colonial control of. The general workers in Britain did still have it hard, and did work hard, but at least they didn't have a foreign super power on their land, taking control and holding a gun to them. Again, think China, the Boxer Rebellion, how we got Hong Kong. All this because we wanted to force China to trade with us. How do you think the local workers in China faired compared to the common man in Britain? We basically turned China into a Opium den just so that we could get enough money to buy tea. I'm sure you know your history well enough that we went as far as having a war, trashing the imperial palace and stealing tea trees to get our way. We then took these trees to India and Sri Lanka (that went well) just so that we didn't have to raise as much gold to pay China. Thankfully China don't seem to hold a grudge like we would.

Like you I do agree it was the top few percent, it always is. But that doesn't mean us at the bottom haven't prospered too because of their actions and it doesn't mean we should continue to support this behaviour just so that we can continue to prosper. We should acknowledge that we are a rich nation today partly because of how we made wealth in the past at the expense of other nations, and not stick our head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen, or it was all someone else's fault so I don't need to be concerned.

HTH

[Bean]

[vetran]

Because, unfortunately, over the course of the last 3 or 4 centuries white man has generally been bad and treated the non white guy as trash (not just British white guys, we weren't the only bad guys). Now, I'm not saying we should constantly be apologising for the bad deeds done by our forefathers, but we should acknowledge that the wealth we enjoy as a country (through being a colonial superpower) came at the expense of others. We therefore have an obligation to help those nations, that previously we have raped and plundered, to get them further up the wealth and success ladder.

I get it that British nationalists that think we should go back to the 'good old days of the empire' won't agree with this but quite frankly they are idiots and yes, racists. To even think that we have the right to subdue other nations by force (which is how we go the empire!) is no better than what nazi Germany tried to do. The days of empire have gone, consigned to the past - we shouldn't forget about it but we should certainly learn from it. We are all humans and therefore all have a right to live a dignified life on this planet.

[cue a certain idiot snipping the above, making some yawn comment like "some bedwetting piffle" followed by half a dozen pointless emojis]

Nah I'll just tell the truth and add references, being a nobrainer you will deny it all as piffle.


So as an opening - Oh do feck off you moronic revisionist arshole.

If you knew any history you would realise all major nations had empires from Elizabethan to modern times. Trust me if you want a really brutal empire from those times look at the Spanish,Belgians & the French, we were rank amateurs in mistreating the natives.

The occupation in India started as a trading relationship and managed to slow the warring between disparate Mughal Emporors , a war that was brutal and had been happening for centuries .

Category:Battles involving the Mughal Empire - Wikipedia

The presence of East India Company armies in India were sometimes to prevent the traders being attacked by the locals not aligned to those we were trading with, but mainly French, Belgians & Italians interfering in trade or overthrowing the local rulers.

We did eventually take over India by force when the internecine wars among the Natives started to really affect trade and they started to seriously attack British traders & soldiers under a quite understandable revolt. We just then tried to keep a lid on it until we handed back to the Indians who as expected pursued a religious war that is raw even now.

East India Company (disambiguation) - Wikipedia

note there were multiple trading nations in India.

East India Company - Wikipedia

During its first century of operation, the focus of the company was trade, not the building of an empire in India. Company interests turned from trade to territory during the 18th century as the Mughal Empire declined in power and the East India Company struggled with its French counterpart, the French East India Company (Compagnie française des Indes orientales) during the Carnatic Wars of the 1740s and 1750s. The battles of Plassey and Buxar, in which the British defeated the Bengali powers, left the company in control of Bengal and a major military and political power in India. In the following decades it gradually increased the extent of the territories under its control, controlling the majority of the Indian subcontinent either directly or indirectly via local puppet rulers under the threat of force by its Presidency armies, much of which were composed of native Indian sepoys.

We have helped India both during the Empire (it would have been centuries of civil war as it had been for centuries before) and post India with foreign aid and preferential treatment in the commonwealth.

Purchasing slaves was quite legal at the time (shockingly research shows 90% of slaves were purchased from their African brothers) and using them was widespread. Literally everyone was at it and had been since the dawn of time.

The British started abolition and lost British lives enforcing it against other future EU members.

https://www.history.ac.uk/1807commem...s/chasing.html


Again we have sent aid in the billions but their rulers still sell their brothers for new BMWs.


We did not try to eradicate entire races in Gas chambers or shoot thousands of prisoners in secluded woodland in the 20th Century. However in most of Europe many countries officially lent a hand to the Germans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

https://eserve.org.uk/tmc/occupied/final.htm

We did not try to invade the whole of Europe to try to impose our insane agenda so I put us ahead of the Italians, Spanish, French & Germans.


I am struggling to see what the British have to be ashamed about, they seem to have either been on trend or ahead of the curve compared to our neighbours on social responsibility. We have been trying to fix the world ever since but some parts of the world just don't want to be fixed.

Africa has sold its riches to China in the last few decades. In a centuries time will we hear complaints about how China stole from them?

[sasguru]

I am struggling to see what the British have to be ashamed about

The Most Devastating Atrocities Committed By Every European Colonial

But of course we know by now that you're a congenital idiot who doesn't have much of a clue about anything.
Which is why you're in a non-job servicing the immigrant talent.