Representing CUK Brexiteers

[vetran]

Young Germans are taught about the war and the effects it had on people and not to repeat it again or to glorify it whereas the British seem unable to not hark back to those days. Maybe, like the rest of Europe they should be looking to the future rather than wallowing in nostalgia. The amount of people who weren't alive during those times yet use them to justify their actions is unbelievable, if they really had to go through the blitz they would tulip themselves.

Again you accused brexiters of being fascists. We want to be friends with Europe not a state of Europe, that is forward thinking as we want to do that with all countries.

One of the problems that Brexit has caused and not just in the UK, is the rise of nationalism and populism and nothing that any Brexiteer can say will now stop that. It is those Eurosceptics who are driving it, you only need to look at the leaders of this psuedo-fascist movement to see who they ally themselves with and how they act.

Its not Brexit that caused that, it is large scale migration and governments failing to manage that. One thirds of our capital city is foreign born. Its happening elsewhere
Urban Europe

File:Average net migration plus statistical adjustment, selected metropolitan regions, 2009

Charismatic as Mr Farage is he can't really make as much impact as walking down your local packed high street and not hearing your native language spoken, Similar when someone suggests that the plans for the EU to establish an army & political wing or that its failing to deal with a migrant crisis they are called liars & racists.

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism its served us well. Its National socialism we have to avoid.

My grandfather also fought in the war, he was one of the first allied soldiers to enter Frankfurt and saw the destruction that occurred. He helped people in the camps after the war and during his life worked hard for equality for people (he was responsible for returning soldiers to get cheap affordable housing and was later the oldest ex-soldier to become a Chelsea pensioner.) He would be astounded at how insular and xenophobic the British people have become along with the way that many have embraced the right, he's not the only one. I have (had) family that endured the camps in Germany during the war, I have seen apartheid first hand, I have been caught in the middle of wars and terrorist incidents so I think I have a right to say these things. Britain is becoming more and more right wing sadly and yet everyone sits around thinking that all is alright, exactly how the Germans felt in the 30's and then it all kicked off...

Do show examples of modern propaganda in the UK similar to this



https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...azi-propaganda


Britain is very welcoming, we few areas like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...main-in-crisis

We have friends in France and visit them in Rouen regularly, I am constantly surprised at the level of segregation in the city. Most middle aged French people would have a seizure if a Black or Asian moved in next to them. We just ask them round for dinner.

Okay, you don't need to call anyone who challenges the government a Nazi but the current government are doing well enough to warrant the label right wing. You only have to look at the way they deal with immigrants (Windrush for example), disabled people and those that aren't in the same lucky position that they are...

Windrush is a perfect example of the incompetence of multiple governments. Their status needed regularising but they were neither helped or encouraged to do so. When we finally started checking people's status as we have no clue is in the country they had no paperwork. People are presenting this as racism when in fact it is incompetence. I'm sure plenty of white immigrants had trouble as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43782241

The Home Office did not keep a record of those granted leave to remain or issue any paperwork confirming it - meaning it is difficult for Windrush arrivals to prove they are in the UK legally.

Those who lack documents are now being told they need evidence to continue working, get treatment from the NHS - or even to remain in the UK.

Changes to immigration law in 2012, which require people to have documentation to work, rent a property or access benefits, including healthcare, have left people fearful about their status.

They came in the 1950's and the paperwork wasn't done. Now its weaponised to attack the Tories who are trying to fix poor immigration control.

The number of people on Disability benefits doubled under Labour. Either Britain had suddenly become very sick or there was a lot of fraud. The conservatives reversed the growth and tried to make sure only those that need them claim them it was as usual racked with incompetence. If you think no person would abuse them have a look at this!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...n-for-new-year

Blue Badge fraud is estimated to cost the UK £46 million a year and it is generally accepted that reform is urgently needed.

Do you really want the best for your country or do you want the best for yourself? Many people say this but in the end it comes down to the fact that if they're okay, then that's either it or they believe that everyone else is in the same position as they are. Maybe you want to try packing your job in, live on benefits and then see what's best...

I believe that is what is best for my country may not be best for me. I don't like paying all the tax I have to etc. But I realise it is needed, conversely I don't believe in subsidising those that don't need it.

I have had a number of my friends on benefits in my life, when in need they eat at our house, their kids are looked after so they can go to benefit meetings and the doctors. That is what happens when you are a decent citizen.

Luckily I have always managed to find a new job when out of one and have a war chest that would last a year or more. People earning the same or much more than me have struggled after a few weeks. We have in the past lived on the equivalent of benefits but never claimed.

Not sure how opening the flood gates from the EU so there are lots of people going for the same job and driving the wages down is helping the unemployed, old or disabled that want to work .

I have both volunteered for charities and donated significant sums to them.

Aren't the new nationalists and populist groups around the world trying to create their own version of a new Reich?

Probably but they don't seem to be getting a lot of traction in the UK.

Some re-enactments are of historical and educational value but why do these old British men delight in wearing SS uniforms?

Strange the SS uniforms normally have SS lightening bolts on the collars or elsewhere, none of the pictures I can see show that, they have the bars of the standard Army & Navy.

https://www.adl.org/education/refere...mbols/ss-bolts

Maybe to really give it a historical perspective they could have a couple of brick buildings with chimneys? That would definitely be educational!

There are good taste memorials throughout Europe and even the world mourning those murdered. Your comment is in exceptionally bad taste.

Maybe there could be reenactments of the British in Ireland or India. I'm sorry but most of these middle age men have some sort of fantasy about wearing SS uniforms and that is not healthy...

They do .

https://en-gb.facebook.com/British-I...1963941585510/

The reenactment is about understanding the period not glorifying the conflict.

Britain also supported Hitler at one point

Do please quote the entry in Hansard or a transcript of a speech from a Prime minister actively supporting Hitler's ideals. We did sign a peace agreement then started arming up as we had two rowing boats and a 70 year old chap with a broomstick as military forces.

...Britain also rounded up people...You go on about uncontrolled immigration yet people have pointed out numerous times that (a) there are more immigrants from outside of the EU and (b) the British government could have used the same laws that every other EU country did to control EU immigration but didn't!

Rounding up illegal immigrants is the duty of a government. Rounding up foreign nationals of enemy powers was a perfectly normal step during war. As far as I know the UK neither routinely beat,raped, starved, worked them to death, shot or gassed them unlike the AXIS powers.

I don't call people wanting to leave the EU racist and never have, I do call them misguided and uninformed though...

You have likened them to Nazis sorry if you have difficulty understanding that is the same.

Just because I like the majority of voters have a different opinion on the EU does not make me ill informed or misguided.

[darmstadt]

Trying to justify himself...

To use standard Brexit language, TL;DR...

[vetran]

To use standard remainer language, I lost , toys out the pram...

FTFY

[WTFH]

Do show examples of modern propaganda in the UK

If only there was a source of propaganda that relies on stirring up fear...


And anyone who disagrees with them should be hated...

[vetran]

If only there was a source of propaganda that relies on stirring up fear...


And anyone who disagrees with them should be hated...

seriously you are equating concern about economic migration with Nazi propaganda?

Talk about Alt Left.

[WTFH]

seriously you are equating concern about economic migration with Nazi propaganda?

Talk about Alt Left.

I'm equating propaganda with propaganda.
The proof that it works is that you believe it is just "concern". Do you also believe that anyone who disagrees with the Wail is a saboteur, an enemy of the British people and a traitor?

[vetran]

I'm equating propaganda with propaganda.
The proof that it works is that you believe it is just "concern". Do you also believe that anyone who disagrees with the Wail is a saboteur, an enemy of the British people and a traitor?

hmm I am not alone even the EU is worried. Concerns about illegal activity is nowhere near demonising a particular race, YMMV are you with Corbyn or not?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gration-doubts

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...el-of-concern/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c3...uk-immigration

One thing you need to know is there are 7.6 Billion people on this world and the vast majority would love to attain a western lifestyle. Many live on less that $2 a day. How are you going to fix that if they all move here?


No I believe disagreeing with the wail is essential, I feel the same about other papers. Trick is to understand their motivations.

[darmstadt]

FTFY

You won, get over it

Personally I don't really care but do you care about people who call Diane Abbott a stupid ignorant black bitch? Do you care when someone threatens to kill Gina Miller? Did you care when a Brexiteer killed Jo Cox? As WTFH has shown, the press are currently the driving force in destroying a great country and do you care about that? If you did, then you would do something about it...

[vetran]

You won, get over it

Personally I don't really care but do you care about people who call Diane Abbott a stupid ignorant black bitch? Do you care when someone threatens to kill Gina Miller? Did you care when a Brexiteer killed Jo Cox? As WTFH has shown, the press are currently the driving force in destroying a great country and do you care about that? If you did, then you would do something about it...

Perfectly happy with people who call Diane Abbott a stupid, ignorant, liar - its true.

here is her trying to make political capital out of knife crime!

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...question-time/

plenty of other clips where she looks the electorate in the eye and lies her arse off!


I don't believe threats to kill or killing people is acceptable. I note your examples were on the right. Try these:

Labour activists threaten to stalk Laura Kuenssberg | Daily Mail Online

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-after-refusa/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/593232...yn-on-twitter/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/97...ommons-walkout

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/95...x-style-murder

I think the left need to consider their position.



WTFH has highlighted the press are selling papers based on the problem of migration, the conversation has finally changed from "its racist to challenge migration" to "what are we going to do about migration its obviously not working" I think that is progress. We are still listening to a litany of "all Immigration is good" & "how dare you suggest some immigrants are bad".

I look forward to finally talking about managed migration and helping people to fix their own countries which seems to be the logical solution to the world's needs.

I didn't like the enemies of the people or Saboteur headlines. Whilst many of us are sure those accused clearly want to derail the process using trickery there are more sensible ways of saying that.

Even calling them "lying, scheming remoaners" would have been preferable and truthful, I suspect that they truly think their way is the best for the UK, we can see that delusion on here . I'm sure Guy Fawkes considered himself a patriot.

I don't think the press are destroying our great country but they are making some unpleasant noises to sell papers just as some parts of the press & broadcasters are selling out to retain their dwindling readership on the left.

“A free press is the unsleeping guardian of every other right that free men prize; it is the most dangerous foe of tyranny… Under dictatorship the press is bound to languish… But where free institutions are indigenous to the soil and men have the habit of liberty, the press will continue to be the Fourth Estate, the vigilant guardian of the rights of the ordinary citizen.”

[WTFH]

WTFH has highlighted the press are selling papers based on the problem of migration, the conversation has finally changed from "its racist to challenge migration" to "what are we going to do about migration its obviously not working" I think that is progress. We are still listening to a litany of "all Immigration is good" & "how dare you suggest some immigrants are bad".

No, you are listening to "All immigration is evil", "all immigrants steal jobs", "all immigrants are on benefits", etc, and when challenged, you claim that it's false and that you have to put up with a litany of "all immigration is good".
If you are hearing that "all immigration is good" so often, could you please point to one headline in the Daily Mail which says that. Or any other media outlet that you rely on for your news.