Supermarkets slam "food stockpiling" suggestion by government.

[PurpleGorilla]

Whataboutery.

Mordac stated in an earlier post, "No, but we can import fruit and vegetables from Africa (as we do currently) without the EU tariffs". This incorrectly implies that there are currently tariffs on imports from Africa which, in the vast majority of African countries for everything but arms, there are not.

Whether the CAP unfairly distorts the internal market against external suppliers is a different argument. You might do better as an opening gambit than an anti-dumping spat between Australia and Italy though if your concern is for African farmers.

Just pointing out that even if Africa is zero tariff to trade with the EU, they still have a disadvantage as CAP products are subsidised.

[meridian]

Supermarkets slam "food stockpiling" suggestion by government.

Just pointing out that even if Africa is zero tariff to trade with the EU, they still have a disadvantage as CAP products are subsidised.

1. Not “if”. In the vast majority of African countries, they are zero.

2. What other non-tariff barriers are in place (distance and infrastructure would be 2) that also put them at a disadvantage, perhaps more so than CAP?

3. Do African countries also subsidise (clue: they do) and if so why isn’t this a disadvantage to the EU?

4. Does any of this prevent produce coming to the U.K. from Africa (hint: take a look in Tescos / Sainsbury’s / etc, it doesn’t)

5. Do some additional research into your link about Italian dumping into Australia (it was overturned in 2017).

While nobody’s pretending that the CAP is perfect, you’ll need to provide better arguments than that to show that African countries are significantly disadvantaged.

[PurpleGorilla]

1. Not “if”. In the vast majority of African countries, they are zero.

2. What other non-tariff barriers are in place (distance and infrastructure would be 2) that also put them at a disadvantage, perhaps more so than CAP?

3. Do African countries also subsidise (clue: they do) and if so why isn’t this a disadvantage to the EU?

4. Does any of this prevent produce coming to the U.K. from Africa (hint: take a look in Tescos / Sainsbury’s / etc, it doesn’t)

5. Do some additional research into your link about Italian dumping into Australia (it was overturned in 2017).

While nobody’s pretending that the CAP is perfect, you’ll need to provide better arguments than that to show that African countries are significantly disadvantaged.

This is absurd. You know darn well how significant CAP is and the advantage it gives. 40% of the entire EU budget is the CAP. Making out that Africa is being treated well because of zero tariff is clearly nonsense. Have you missed the news reports of all the Africans risking drowning to get into the European Gated Community? Don’t gag balls deep on the EU propaganda....

[meridian]

This is absurd. You know darn well how significant CAP is and the advantage it gives. 40% of the entire EU budget is the CAP. Making out that Africa is being treated well because of zero tariff is clearly nonsense. Have you missed the news reports of all the Africans risking drowning to get into the European Gated Community? Don’t gag balls deep on the EU propaganda....

Well, quite. It’s always going to be absurd if you refuse to engage with all the facts and only cherry-pick the ones that suit your myopic viewpoint, coupled with a bit of gaslighting and misdirection.

Is Africa being “treated well” because of 0% tariffs? That is both an emotive term and relative to something else. Are you relating it to other non-African countries or to your bed wetting about Europe’s imperial past?

Is the CAP significant? Yes, of course it is. How much more or less significant than subsidies within African states is debatable, but you would apparently prefer to ignore that.

Migrants drowning to get to the EU? I must have missed the bit where that’s the fault of CAP, it’s a bit of a stretch. Nothing at all to do with problems in their own countries though, it’s all the EU’s fault for being a wealthy Western society.

You also missed the bit about infrastructure, distance, and are presumably also going to ignore African despots hiding trillions of African wealth in London.

Note that I don’t necessarily agree with or support any of the above, but it’s not as black and white as you seem to think.

[PurpleGorilla]

Well, quite. It’s always going to be absurd if you refuse to engage with all the facts and only cherry-pick the ones that suit your myopic viewpoint, coupled with a bit of gaslighting and misdirection.

Is Africa being “treated well” because of 0% tariffs? That is both an emotive term and relative to something else. Are you relating it to other non-African countries or to your bed wetting about Europe’s imperial past?

Is the CAP significant? Yes, of course it is. How much more or less significant than subsidies within African states is debatable, but you would apparently prefer to ignore that.

Migrants drowning to get to the EU? I must have missed the bit where that’s the fault of CAP, it’s a bit of a stretch. Nothing at all to do with problems in their own countries though, it’s all the EU’s fault for being a wealthy Western society.

You also missed the bit about infrastructure, distance, and are presumably also going to ignore African despots hiding trillions of African wealth in London.

Note that I don’t necessarily agree with or support any of the above, but it’s not as black and white as you seem to think.

I don’t think our views are as far away as you think.

Africa subsidies are peanuts compared to EU CAP, but sure they have an impact. As does transportation costs. Though North Africa is not too far away. But by pure logic the unit cost price would be less in Africa if the CAP wasn’t so grotesquely subsidising European production. I think it extremely unethical.

Undoubtably Europe and the UK especially has a huge debt to repay Africa. How best to achieve this is complex, But the need still prevails and it must be active and sustained.

I do believe that improving African’s quality of life in their home countries may help reduce the dangerous migration attempts we see across the Med. This is a good thing; there is tremendous opportunity in a dynamic and evolving Africa.

[Cirrus]

But by pure logic the unit cost price would be less in Africa if the CAP wasn’t so grotesquely subsidising European production.

I've absolutely no idea what your pure logic might be for this statement. Could you expand?

The CAP is there to subsidize inefficient small farmers. It doesn't lower prices in any way. It supports and protects EU farmers from the harsh winds of global free trade. However, as has been said, places like Africa get special dispensations and you can see a lot of their stuff gets on our shelves.

[meridian]

I don’t think our views are as far away as you think.

I agree, in reality we're probably not. I was being deliberately provocative in my earlier post and for that I apologise.

Africa subsidies are peanuts compared to EU CAP, but sure they have an impact. As does transportation costs. Though North Africa is not too far away. But by pure logic the unit cost price would be less in Africa if the CAP wasn’t so grotesquely subsidising European production. I think it extremely unethical.

Undoubtably Europe and the UK especially has a huge debt to repay Africa. How best to achieve this is complex, But the need still prevails and it must be active and sustained.

I do believe that improving African’s quality of life in their home countries may help reduce the dangerous migration attempts we see across the Med. This is a good thing; there is tremendous opportunity in a dynamic and evolving Africa.

Like Cirrus, I don't get your reasoning on the unit cost price in eg Kenya being impacted by CAP. But it is hugely complex.

Take the example previously of beans from Kenya. They're all over Tescos and Sainsbury's so clearly they are both a cost-effective and consistent source of supply for two of our largest supermarket chains. Do we reduce the CAP on UK bean growers? How will that impact our own producers if they find it even more difficult to sell within the UK? How will Kenya's producers react, will they all turn to growing beans and thereby reducing other food sources within Kenya? Kenya already has a food crisis, will this create additional antagonism towards the EU/UK for further reducing food supplies within Africa and create the notion that the UK is bleeding Kenya of food? Will it create an impression that the UK is forcing "trickle-down" economics on Kenya?

Like you, I also believe that improving quality of life there will reduce the loss of life in the Med. I'd prefer to see more movement from us in preventing the flight of capital by African leaders, and in us reducing the sale of arms to dictators and warlords though, before leaping on the CAP as a primary source.

[sasguru]

This of course ignores any environmental effects of transporting veg around the world - I suspect this summer will not prove to be a one-off and in spite of the denialist morons, environmental concerns are going to have to come to the fore.

In which case the crop of tomatoes will reach bumper proportions.

You really need to start seeing the opportunities instead of burying your empty little head in the sand all the time.

Bremoaners see problem, Leavers see opportunities. Tis the way of things.................

Ah yes let's raise global temperatures so we can have bumper crops of tomatoes
Maybe they can be harvested by the millions of migrants who'll flee the resultant drought for wetter climes

I think the correct conclusion to make here is that Brexshitter types obviously fell out of the stupid tree and hit all the branches on the way down.

[sasguru]

I've absolutely no idea what your pure logic might be for this statement.

Like Cirrus, I don't get your reasoning .

The Mauve Monkey is a thick Brexshitter like SB. You don't expect any modicum of intelligence, logic or reason from these cosmic dunderheads, do you?

[vetran]

instead of burying your empty little head in the sand all the time.

Bremoaners see problem, leavers see opportunities. Tis the way of things.................

its not the sand!