No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[DonkeyRhubarb]

So the only get out would be to appeal for a Judicial Review on APNs but with one of them already in progress would a second one be allowed....

There are at least 2 already in the pipeline, so the more the merrier.

Also, each one might involve different arguments.

[bombaycat]

MTM APN warning letter: std info on details about APNs received from HMRC

bit worrying - maybe coincidental but they've also not paid me a tax refund for year before last - I've always been refunded money owed to me quite quickly - on chasing them they refused to say why - maybe unrelated..

They refused my tax refund request this year also due to the appeal they said. They have always refused to pay tax refunds for me for several years - I just try to pay the right amount. Still all kind of gone to pot now with the APN imminent.

For those that can't wait here are the details HMRC sent about APNs and Partner Payment Notices and how they work:

It says that if you pay the "partner payment notice" but subsequently win the appeal at tribunal or courts then they will repay the amount with any interest due.
The term Accelerated payment notice also means "Partner payment notice".
Payment is due within 90 days, if you make representations objecting the due date may change.

1. If there is a current compliance check in progess:
If not paid by due date 5% penalty.
If not paid by 5 months of due date another 5% penalty is added on.
If not paid by 11 months another 5% penalty.

2. If there is a current appeal in the courts:
2a) If the APN relates to tax years up to and including 09-10:
If not paid within 28 days of due date 5% surcharge
If not by 6 months of due date another 5% surcharge.

2b) If the APN relates to tax years 10-11 or later:
If not paid by the penalty date which is due date +31 days 5% penalty charge
If not paid by 5 months from penalty date (due +31days + 5months) another 5%
If not paid by 11 months from penalty date (due +31days + 11months) another 5%

You may not be charged penalties or surcharges if you had a "reasonable excuse" which you'd told them of and you paid as soon as the "reasonable excuse" had ended.
A "reasonable excuse" must be an unexpected or unusual event that is unforeseeable - not to do with means to pay.

There is no interest for paying an APN late but there is interest for late payment of the tax, ie the APN payment is treated as a late tax payment in itself.
There is interest for paying surcharges and penalties late.

You may not appeal an APN but you can make representations if:
- the conditions for issuing notice have not been met
- the amount is not correct (you have to tell them what the amount should be and why you think that)
These representations must be received within 90 days from receiving the APN.
Payment will be due either on the due date of the APN or 30 days after their decision on any represenetations whichever is the later.
Penalties for late paying will be applied from the new deadline if extended.

They will work with you to settle the compliance check or appeal if you decide to settle your tax affairs once an APN is received.
You do not have to settle your tax affairs the appeal or check can remain open regardless of if you choose to pay the APN.
The postponement of tax due while under appeal is cancelled once an APN is issued.

If you win your appeal later they would normally repay the APN amount paid plus interest due.
However if they appeal that decision they may ask permission not to repay at that point.

OK folks that's pretty much it in detail.

You don't get to know the amount that they've cooked up until you get the actual APN (partner payment notice) itself.

[OnYourBikeGB]

A big welcome to our recent new members - where have you been all these years

To HMRC: we are getting bigger and stronger and will be a force to be reckoned with.

I hope there's some load-balancing on the NTRT web servers. A stampede might be imminent.

[screwthis]

I've asked this many times but

Do we still think that those of us using the scheme only in tax years prior to 2004 (DOTAS) are still safe from APNs (atm)?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Do we still think that those of us using the scheme only in tax years prior to 2004 (DOTAS) are still safe from APNs (atm)?

No-one really knows.

It would be absurd if APNs were issued for tax years before DOTAS even existed but this is HMRC we're talking about.

[jlg15333]

Time to Pay?

They refused my tax refund request this year also due to the appeal they said. They have always refused to pay tax refunds for me for several years - I just try to pay the right amount. Still all kind of gone to pot now with the APN imminent.

For those that can't wait here are the details HMRC sent about APNs and Partner Payment Notices and how they work:

It says that if you pay the "partner payment notice" but subsequently win the appeal at tribunal or courts then they will repay the amount with any interest due.
The term Accelerated payment notice also means "Partner payment notice".
Payment is due within 90 days, if you make representations objecting the due date may change.

1. If there is a current compliance check in progess:
If not paid by due date 5% penalty.
If not paid by 5 months of due date another 5% penalty is added on.
If not paid by 11 months another 5% penalty.

2. If there is a current appeal in the courts:
2a) If the APN relates to tax years up to and including 09-10:
If not paid within 28 days of due date 5% surcharge
If not by 6 months of due date another 5% surcharge.

2b) If the APN relates to tax years 10-11 or later:
If not paid by the penalty date which is due date +31 days 5% penalty charge
If not paid by 5 months from penalty date (due +31days + 5months) another 5%
If not paid by 11 months from penalty date (due +31days + 11months) another 5%

You may not be charged penalties or surcharges if you had a "reasonable excuse" which you'd told them of and you paid as soon as the "reasonable excuse" had ended.
A "reasonable excuse" must be an unexpected or unusual event that is unforeseeable - not to do with means to pay.

There is no interest for paying an APN late but there is interest for late payment of the tax, ie the APN payment is treated as a late tax payment in itself.
There is interest for paying surcharges and penalties late.

You may not appeal an APN but you can make representations if:
- the conditions for issuing notice have not been met
- the amount is not correct (you have to tell them what the amount should be and why you think that)
These representations must be received within 90 days from receiving the APN.
Payment will be due either on the due date of the APN or 30 days after their decision on any represenetations whichever is the later.
Penalties for late paying will be applied from the new deadline if extended.

They will work with you to settle the compliance check or appeal if you decide to settle your tax affairs once an APN is received.
You do not have to settle your tax affairs the appeal or check can remain open regardless of if you choose to pay the APN.
The postponement of tax due while under appeal is cancelled once an APN is issued.

If you win your appeal later they would normally repay the APN amount paid plus interest due.
However if they appeal that decision they may ask permission not to repay at that point.

OK folks that's pretty much it in detail.

You don't get to know the amount that they've cooked up until you get the actual APN (partner payment notice) itself.

Does that mean there's no time to pay then? From the post above it looks like they've generously given up 28 days if its pre 2010. I'm working away at the moment so won't know if I've got the letter until Friday but its not looking very promising .. bankruptcy beckons as does loss of job. It seems there's one rule for the elite rich & one for the silly fools like me who declared the scheme on their tax returns.
Ho hum, well thats that then ... at least its finally over. Benefits St. here I come ..

[bombaycat]

Time to pay

Hi jlg

The time to pay for <= 09-10 tax years is APN due date + 28 days (APN due date is 90 days after receiving APN) then the 5% penalties start to rack up.

So it is get APN + 90 days + 28 days I think. Basically 4 months.

They said APN would be issued 1 - 8 weeks from the letter I got today so the due date without penalties, assuming they hit their rather wide deadline, would be for me:

today + 90 days + 28 days + somewhere between 1 and 8 weeks. or 4 - 6 months from now depending how fast they work.

[jlg15333]

time to pay ...

Hi jlg

The time to pay for <= 09-10 tax years is APN due date + 28 days (APN due date is 90 days after receiving APN) then the 5% penalties start to rack up.

So it is get APN + 90 days + 28 days I think. Basically 4 months.

They said APN would be issued 1 - 8 weeks from the letter I got today so the due date without penalties, assuming they hit their rather wide deadline, would be for me:

today + 90 days + 28 days + somewhere between 1 and 8 weeks. or 4 - 6 months from now depending how fast they work.

Thanks ..

[bombaycat]

Thanks ..

I'd like to say that it was a pleasure but ......

Still, glad to clarify what it seems to mean since everyone is keen to know the likely D-Day for themselves obviously.

[akan]

APN and CTD?

So guess there is still no clarity with APN and CTD and how that works? I googled this but can't find anything with how a CTD will work with an APN. Guess the sensible thing would be the CTD halts the APN as they have our money anyway - but then there is nothing in this sorry saga that is sensible.