No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[OneUnited]

Have I grasped this correctly.

The next step is that HMRC will write to us all individually warning that APNs are coming. Then they send out the APNs.Then we've got 90 days to pay?

What happens after the 90 days if you can't pay?

Once again I am a little confused, probably something to do with getting older, or so my wife tells me.

If a JR has been granted against HMRC issuing APN's does that not in effect stop any more being issued until the JR has been through the courts?

[regron]

Only if the JR applies to your particular scheme. That is how I understand it.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Once again I am a little confused, probably something to do with getting older, or so my wife tells me.

If a JR has been granted against HMRC issuing APN's does that not in effect stop any more being issued until the JR has been through the courts?

Apparently not. HMRC are still issuing them and collecting money.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Only if the JR applies to your particular scheme. That is how I understand it.

I'm not sure that's automatically the case either. With the film partnership JR, only the 100 or so named in the application have had their APNs suspended. From what I hear, the rest have had to pay up.

[OneUnited]

I'm not sure that's automatically the case either. With the film partnership JR, only the 100 or so named in the application have had their APNs suspended. From what I hear, the rest have had to pay up.

Apparently not. HMRC are still issuing them and collecting money.

Ok this is becoming confusing

Could we end up with numerous JR's then depending on how the each promoter responds to HMRC?

[regron]

I'm not sure that's automatically the case either. With the film partnership JR, only the 100 or so named in the application have had their APNs suspended. From what I hear, the rest have had to pay up.

Yeah, I did notice that which leads you to think:

1. Did the others not get the invite to participate in the group led JR.
2. If they did, why not take up the offer.

[OnYourBikeGB]

you get a penalty if not paid within the 90 days, from memory its 5%. There is then another staged penalty if it isnt paid within another time period, between 5 and 11 months, again another 5%. HMRC apparently will take instalments etc and accept hardship arrangements. All this is obviously to be tested in reality!

Interestingly, my financial adviser said it will cost me more to sell some of my property assets (due to mortgage penalties mainly) and pay the APN immediately, than if I sit and let the penalties build and pay at a later date. Something to consider if you are in a similar position to me, i.e. with some property assets you would need to sell to pay the APN.

He also suggested I would be better off paying in instalments anyway to remove the need to sell an asset thereby not only mitigating a bill for capital gains tax, but also preserving the asset for capital growth. I do wonder if CGT would be payable in a case like this, Ive heard people say HMRC couldnt waive it, in which case it would probably be easier to just remortgage it upto the hilt and let them take it. I obviously said cant see HMRC accepting payment plan if I have assets to hand, but he is of the view this is all so convoluted they will probably bend quite a bit to accept payment plans.

Also - on the penalty front, I seem to recall that even if we were to go on and win, you don't get the penalty back. That's British justice under the Tories for you.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Yeah, I did notice that which leads you to think:

1. Did the others not get the invite to participate in the group led JR.
2. If they did, why not take up the offer.

Don't know.

But what it does mean is, if Montpelier do apply for a JR, there are going to have to be other steps to prevent HMRC enforcing APNs on any of the 1500 users.

[xtal]

Long time lurker with a couple of questions..

As someone else recently asked in this thread, I too would be interested to know whether anyone has attempted to come to a settlement with HMRC, and if so what the outcome was?

Also, regarding the soon (likely) to arrive APN's. Could there be a possibility of a "deal price" being offered to encourage settlement? Or will it almost certainly be the figures we're already expecting + penalty fees (if late), plus shirt off back etc?

[centurian]

In the past, HMRC have taken a pretty common sense approach, that if there is a JR against a particular action, they would suspend collection for all similar cases pending the outcome - as they did when Montpelier launched the JR against s58 - lots of non MTM users whose providers disappeared into thin air benefitted from the broader suspension.

If what is being reported is true, it seems they were under no legal obligation to do this - and now they have decided to really play hardball.

MTM users should be fine - I suspect they would launch a JR. It's those that don't have the odd couple of hundred grand lying around in a slush fund that will be eyeing this development with concern.