No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[BrilloPad]

"A spokesman for HMRC told The Daily Telegraph that only “very small numbers” of wealthy individuals would be affected and the power would be used only when “deliberate” actions had been taken to avoid tax."

...that must have come straight out of HMRC's stock "Replies and justifications handbook".

And I thought it was a citizen's righ(or even duty) to deliberately avoid tax?

Maybe that was just up to last week and the rules were just retrospectively changed?

[Henrik]

Current Position?

Do we have any clarity regarding whether or not HMRC will issue APNs to us?

I'm unclear as to whether:

We are just waiting for them to get around to it (could be tomorrow, could be 18 months)

OR

They are on hold following the Lin Homer comment that there needs to be a Tribunal decision first. Therefore we await the FTT sometime next year.

[BrilloPad]

Do we have any clarity regarding whether or not HMRC will issue APNs to us?

I'm unclear as to whether:

We are just waiting for them to get around to it (could be tomorrow, could be 18 months)

OR

They are on hold following the Lin Homer comment that there needs to be a Tribunal decision first. Therefore we await the FTT sometime next year.

Suppose they say they will issue APNs? It could be 3 weeks or 3 years or 3 decades.

Even after FTTT we will have another 6 months for appeals then 6 months while HMRC gear up for 2000 CNs.

Only things we can be sure of : we will not be treated fairly.

[Rob79]

Suppose they say they will issue APNs? It could be 3 weeks or 3 years or 3 decades.

Even after FTTT we will have another 6 months for appeals then 6 months while HMRC gear up for 2000 CNs.

Only things we can be sure of : we will not be treated fairly.

If HMRC stick to Ms Homer's stated view, an APN is unlikely before a "positive" decision in HMRC's favour. Now that Rangers is with the Court of Sessions awaiting a date (might sneak into this year), chances are it won't be that one. There are a couple of other "offshore remuneration" type schemes waiting to go to FTT. Earliest date for those is late 2014 and a decision perhaps 3 months after that.

IN my personal opinion therefore if HMRC stick to the Homer line, first APN's might be towards the end of Q1 2015. (Bear in mind however that an election is due around then and quite what impact that might have on issue or non issue I don't know).

Be warned that the rules on APN's allow for issue without a FTT or higher level decision IF a FN is issued, DOTAS registration carried or GAAR counteraction. If HMRC want to be unfair, then there is plenty of scope for APN's to be issued very soon.

[Dazed and Confused]

MPs Exemptions (FB 2011)

Post # 6193 on this thread (page 620) has the link

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post1955148


This the article to which the post refers:

Why should MPs be exempt from new law to block tax avoidance? – Telegraph Blogs

In the document at 554E (Exclusions: steps under certain schemes etc) section 8 it says:

"Chapter 2 does not apply by reason of a relevant step taken by the
Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in relation to a
member of the House of Commons."


Chapter 2 (page 86 to page 194) to me is 109 pages of gobbldegook. Can anyone explain (in simple terms) what the MPs are actually exempt from?

[TAF4]

Hi DnC.
Could you provide links to the doco's? My search skills aren't up to it.

[Dazed and Confused]

Hi DnC.
Could you provide links to the doco's? My search skills aren't up to it.

Sure, here you go:

http://www.publications.parliament.u...75/2011175.pdf

"CHAPTER 2" starts on pages 86.

Section 554E (8) is on page 60

[TAF4]

Many thanks DnC.

[DaveB]

In the document at 554E (Exclusions: steps under certain schemes etc) section 8 it says:

"Chapter 2 does not apply by reason of a relevant step taken by the
Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in relation to a
member of the House of Commons."


Chapter 2 (page 86 to page 194) to me is 109 pages of gobbldegook. Can anyone explain (in simple terms) what the MPs are actually exempt from?

As far as I can tell (IANAL, IANAA) Chapter 2 contains all the instructions for determining whether payments made under the scenarios described in chapter 1, unless otherwise exempt, should be taxed as income or not, and if so in what context. Think of it as an extremely complicated set of nested IF statements with very poor formatting and obtuse variable names.

554E appears to say that if the Independent Parliamentary Standards Committee decides to investigate the behaviour of an MP none of the instructions in Chapter 2 are applicable to that MP. In other words the IPSC gets to pass judgement (or not) on the MP, not HMRC. And we've all seen how effective that has been in the past.

[costo]

As far as I can tell (IANAL, IANAA) Chapter 2 contains all the instructions for determining whether payments made under the scenarios described in chapter 1, unless otherwise exempt, should be taxed as income or not, and if so in what context. Think of it as an extremely complicated set of nested IF statements with very poor formatting and obtuse variable names.

554E appears to say that if the Independent Parliamentary Standards Committee decides to investigate the behaviour of an MP none of the instructions in Chapter 2 are applicable to that MP. In other words the IPSC gets to pass judgement (or not) on the MP, not HMRC. And we've all seen how effective that has been in the past.

If MP's are really exempt from the legislation (and to be honest I don't really have the legal brain to understand what the finance bill means) surely this is something the press would be all over? Creating new laws which MP's are exempt from is surely in line with the famous book "Animal Farm" - "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"?