No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[tendo71]

So CTDs were useless then, brought 6 years ago to stop interest accruing, if i use them to pay the APNs then do i become liable for interest for the 6 years after i've surrendered them, or will they apply retrospectively against the interest?

Have they never seen back to the future?

What do you mean that CTDs were/are useless? I'm not sure I understand?

[OnYourBikeGB]

So CTDs were useless then, brought 6 years ago to stop interest accruing, if i use them to pay the APNs then do i become liable for interest for the 6 years after i've surrendered them, or will they apply retrospectively against the interest?

Have they never seen back to the future?

That is a really scary thought, and one that again highlights the ridiculous nature of this legislation. I would hope that they wouldn't enforce that in this case, there's bound to be scope for negotiation.

[tendo71]

That is a really scary thought, and one that again highlights the ridiculous nature of this legislation. I would hope that they wouldn't enforce that in this case, there's bound to be scope for negotiation.

Can you explain this?

I have a CTD got the amount I owe. If I need to pay the APN I will use that. I then need to find the amount for the interest + NI when/if we lose. Correct?

OR

Are you saying that because I surrender the CTD to pay the APN then the interest is then payable for the term I had the CTD because..... Nope I don't get it.

Can someone explain? Is this a real concern? Am I better paying up now including interest and NI?

[OnYourBikeGB]

No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

Can you explain this?

I have a CTD got the amount I owe. If I need to pay the APN I will use that. I then need to find the amount for the interest + NI when/if we lose. Correct?

OR

Are you saying that because I surrender the CTD to pay the APN then the interest is then payable for the term I had the CTD because..... Nope I don't get it.

Can someone explain? Is this a real concern? Am I better paying up now including interest and NI?

TBH, I really don't know, it's a scenario that hadn't crossed my mind until it was mentioned, and there will be people who could answer better than me. I'd have thought they would have to take it into account, they have after all had the use of your money for years.

[centurian]

If you cash in a CTD to meet the APN, then it's as if you never had the CTD in the first place. Interest is due right up until you pay the APN.

One would have thought it would be possible to exchange a CTD for an APN. Let's face it - APN's are effectively mandatory CTD's which you have to take out - and cannot cash in until you win in court.

The big problem is that a CTD is deliberately kept totally and utterly separate from your tax affairs. Even if you lose, you don't actually have to use it to pay the bill (although it would be stupid not to).

[tendo71]

If you cash in a CTD to meet the APN, then it's as if you never had the CTD in the first place. Interest is due right up until you pay the APN.

So you are saying that if I get an APN my CTD was not worth having.

Therefore given I have a CTD for the amount I owe it is better I pay everything (including the interest pre CTD and NI) now.

WOW.

How long have I got before APNs are going to be hitting the door mats?

[growler]

If you cash in a CTD to meet the APN, then it's as if you never had the CTD in the first place. Interest is due right up until you pay the APN.

One would have thought it would be possible to exchange a CTD for an APN. Let's face it - APN's are effectively mandatory CTD's which you have to take out - and cannot cash in until you win in court.

The big problem is that a CTD is deliberately kept totally and utterly separate from your tax affairs. Even if you lose, you don't actually have to use it to pay the bill (although it would be stupid not to).

Is this really the case?

What a total an utter disgrace. I don't know why I am surprised, these scum will stop at nothing.

Neither will I.


I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece

[centurian]

So you are saying that if I get an APN my CTD was not worth having.

If you are allowed to exchange a CTD for an APN (dated to when you took out the CTD), then very little changes - the main difference is that you can no longer cash in.

If HMRC won't allow an exchange, then yes, taking out a CTD was useless. Interest will be due until you pay the APN.

Or you could cancel your appeal and pay up using the CTD. If you took out a CTD very early on, this might be appealing because the interest could be huge, but then if s58 is eventually repealed, you don't get the money back.

Common sense would allow an exchange. But the specifics can get very complicated, especially if you have multiple CTD's with different dates etc. - the fear is some HMRC mandarin saying "ah, we can't be arsed with that complexity - don't allow an exchange".

[tendo71]

If you are allowed to exchange a CTD for an APN (dated to when you took out the CTD), then very little changes - the main difference is that you can no longer cash in.

If HMRC won't allow an exchange, then yes, taking out a CTD was useless. Interest will be due until you pay the APN.

Or you could cancel your appeal and pay up using the CTD. If you took out a CTD very early on, this might be appealing because the interest could be huge, but then if s58 is eventually repealed, you don't get the money back.

Common sense would allow an exchange. But the specifics can get very complicated, especially if you have multiple CTD's with different dates etc. - the fear is some HMRC mandarin saying "ah, we can't be arsed with that complexity - don't allow an exchange".

I got CTD in 2008. So I may as well pay up. I don't want to run the risk.

Do I have to cancel the appeal before they issue an APN? Or could I wait until the APN and they have issued details on CTDs in relation to APNs and then just cancel.

[OnYourBikeGB]

I got CTD in 2008. So I may as well pay up. I don't want to run the risk.

Do I have to cancel the appeal before they issue an APN? Or could I wait until the APN and they have issued details on CTDs in relation to APNs and then just cancel.

I suspect no-one here can answer that question with certainty, and I have to admit when I thought of the ramifications of this, I was a bit taken aback. There is time yet, so don't rush into anything before you get the answers. Not the best way to start a weekend. The unfairness of this whole situation makes me angry, it's just plain wrong. They really are a bunch of bastards.