No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Dylan]

I'm sure that the bills will already be getting prepared even before it becomes law, that way as soon as it becomes law they just put the letters in the envelope and pop them in the post. Its going to be a pre-emptive strike... You could bet that even the consultancy document was not reviewed (how did they have time to document 3000+ responses in 3 weeks?).

Where did the 3000 number come from?

[costo]

Where did the 3000 number come from?

A guess!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

HMRC were supposed to report on the consultation by the time of the Budget.

Whitehouse spoke to them yesterday and they said they're still working on it and they had no time-line on when it would be available.

[PlaneSailing]

HMRC were supposed to report on the consultation by the time of the Budget.

Whitehouse spoke to them yesterday and they said they're still working on it and they had no time-line on when it would be available.

Words fail me.

Another retrospective change, with no consultation.
If they wanted to annoy the professional bodies, they are going about it the right way.

[nick4notax]

Amazing

I am struggling to get my head around this. Maybe I'm still in shock! But... HMRC will file to bankrupt each of us (ultimately) when we fail to pay a demand that alleges our tax return is incorrect, without them having been to the trouble of proving as such via the Tax Tribunal system. Furthermore, they will do this by treating each citizen one of a group.

Who would ever think this is possible in English law, let alone what's acceptable to ECHR??!! I just cannot believe what I'm reading and now writing.

[lucozade]

I am struggling to get my head around this. Maybe I'm still in shock! But... HMRC will file to bankrupt each of us (ultimately) when we fail to pay a demand that alleges our tax return is incorrect, without them having been to the trouble of proving as such via the Tax Tribunal system. Furthermore, they will do this by treating each citizen one of a group.

Who would ever think this is possible in English law, let alone what's acceptable to ECHR??!! I just cannot believe what I'm reading and now writing.

I wonder how this will stand up during a bankruptcy hearing and whether it will actually go in our favour? Or perhaps I'm putting too much faith in our judicial system!

[OnYourBikeGB]

I am struggling to get my head around this. Maybe I'm still in shock! But... HMRC will file to bankrupt each of us (ultimately) when we fail to pay a demand that alleges our tax return is incorrect, without them having been to the trouble of proving as such via the Tax Tribunal system. Furthermore, they will do this by treating each citizen one of a group.

Who would ever think this is possible in English law, let alone what's acceptable to ECHR??!! I just cannot believe what I'm reading and now writing.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it may not be necessary to pay up front, however, there would be fines and penalties later if you did not and HMRC ultimately won. Anyone else recall or have a link to this?

[swede]

What's the process for the law being passed/challenged? They can't bill until it's law? Who can challenge the law? Who is likely to challenge it?

If it passes, what's the process for bankruptcy? Get the bill, voluntarily bankrupt yourself, wipe your debts, get put under charge for 12 months, find a job if you can, then you're discharged.

From then you're credit is screwed. No finance jobs, no mortgages, no rent checks will pass. How do you get somewhere to live if you can't get a mortgage and you can't pass credit checks to rent somewhere?

What do they take when you go bankrupt. Do they pitch up and take all your belongings?

I dont know the answers to all these scary questions.

What I do know is that like many others on here, who have been on here for many years, is that being made bankrupt for a year or so, is probably going to be significantly easier to deal with psychologically than letting this drag on for any longer. Make no mistake this has ruined my life for the past 7 years and I need to put an end to this. The problems which come afterwards are going to be a pain in the arse for sure. I too work in finance, and have done so for 20 years. I'm f***ed too. So financially I'll be ruined I guess.

But I'm bored of waking up in the mornings in my lovely home, only seconds or minutes later remembering that it could all be ripped out from under me at any time. Its like water torture. BTW the house I own (or am paying a mortgage on) was bought before I ever got into any 'scheme' before anyone tells me I shouldn't have had the house in the first place.

I dont have enough equity in my house home to cover my ultimate bill including penalties and unfortunately I dont have much confidence in the tribunal process either.

Oh by the way HMRC - the supposed "~£280k mean" amount that people who have used these schemes are earning - where on earth did you get that from??? This certainly isn't from the majority of the effing IT contractors that used MTM.

So my thoughts are now turning towards the nuclear option and pulling the trigger.

Yes, I wish I had never got involved. No, I will not do it again. By the time I realised I could be in trouble, I already owed too much to be able to get my hands on to put a stop to it - so I just had to stick with it - getting in deeper and deeper.

HMRC - you could win this without being bastards, and maybe even come across as having some semblance of humanity. You know what, if you did that, I'd even consider going on your TV program. But why do this retrospectively and ruin peoples lives in the process?

What worries me is the folks who are now coming up to retirement age and do not have time to start in a different industry as many will need to.

What would you like taxman? 40% of my 150k until I retire in 20 years? Or to give me benefits until I die? Well done, Hector, great move.

[helen7]

Folks its time to throw in the towel. We lost. Get over it. It would have been a lot better for most of us if HMRC could have demanded up front payment after the first judicial review. That would have seemed fair to me.

This is the opinion of the FTT and HMRC are likely to take
I understand that some people have been through awful situations (divorce, credit crunch) but for the majority - you have had 6 years to save up for this moment.

You have to ask yourself; what have you been spending your money on for the last 6 years if you haven't saved up.

Don't expect much sympathy folks. Even my own mother said 'serves you right'.

[javadude]

It's not over yet. There going to be plenty of wealthier and more influential people than us bending their MPs ear about this. Quite likely there are a few MPs affected too.