No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[costo]

A lot of folks on CUK seem to be of the view that anyone who used a scheme deserves to get shafted..

As one caught up in this - I've really struggled when I hear people on this forum indicate "you get what you deserved", there are some real haters on this forum, not so quietly laughing from the sidelines (and making it clear they are doing so).

Truthfully, I'm glad for you - I would never wish the stress and anguish going through this on anyone, even you guys.

Yes in retrospect if I knew then what I knew now it would be a different story, if I was a little less foolish I would not be in this situation - I challenge anyone here to hold their hands up and say they have not done something in the past that they wish they had not?

What is overlooked is the outcome doesn't just damage the people who participated, when I was involved I was younger and single with nobody relying on me.

Now I have 2 lovely children under 5, neither of which have done anything wrong apart from having a father who many many years ago looks like he made a big mistake albeit unwittingly. They are the ones who will suffer the most, who alongside me and my wife will lose their family home, their stability, have parents who cannot give their full attention as they are swimming in debt and stress. Is the "crime" (yet to be proved) so hideous, so detrimental to society and those who are caught up in this so beyond redemption not only do we (and our families) deserve to be punished, but to be punished before we are even proved to have done something wrong?

So again, for those NOT caught up on this - I'm genuinely happy for you, that you and your families aren't suffering like me and my family is, and I would not wish ANYONE not even my worst enemy to go through this.

For all those who are going through this, hang in there....

[TAF4]

Is the "crime" (yet to be proved) so hideous, so detrimental to society and us who are caught up on this so beyond redemption not only do we (and our families) deserve to be punished, but to be punished before we are even proved to have done something wrong?

So again, for those NOT caught up on this - I'm genuinely happy for you, that you and your families aren't suffering like me and my family is, and I would not wish ANYONE not even my worst enemy to go through this.

For all those who are going through this, hang in there....

WHS + us two

[eek]

As one caught up in this - I've really struggled when I hear people on this forum indicate "you get what you deserved", there are some real haters on this forum, not so quietly laughing from the sidelines (and making it clear they are doing so).

What I do find annoying is the assumption that I'm one of the haters on the forum... I don't actually think there are many on here.

What I am however is pragmatic. I just cannot see how you get out of the mess that has been created for you.....

[helen7]

Personally I paid a hansome sum for professional financial advice and was advised to use Montpellier as a proven legal arrangement; backed by QC opinion and case law.

Are the paid professionals accountable for giving wrong advice.....no. I am. Somebody who knows nothing at all of tax and law.

Quite frankly that is what I find appalling.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

What I do find annoying is the assumption that I'm one of the haters on the forum... I don't actually think there are many on here.

What I am however is pragmatic. I just cannot see how you get out of the mess that has been created for you.....

I'm not pointing the finger at you but there's a been a fair bit of schadenfreude, especially on the general threads.

We may not have been very realistic in the beginning but I think most of us are pretty pragmatic now.

[costo]

What I do find annoying is the assumption that I'm one of the haters on the forum

Eek, its obvious from your posts that you are highly intelligent, educated on the subject in question and can hold your own on any discussion.

I'm not trying to "annoy" you, nor to enter into a debate (which I do appreciate the irony by me even replying to this post) which almost certainly I would lose.

As I mentioned in my last post, I'm truly grateful that there are people who are reading this who are NOT caught up in it, you included. That said, if you were caught up in it, or chose to support us (even if we are doomed) you would be a remarkable ally to have on our side, and at this point yes we do need everyone who is willing to object to being proposed to object.

Perhaps you are pragmatic, maybe the writing is on the wall, maybe it's not? I'm not educated in tax law, nor do I understand the situation quite as well as I would like to know.

All I know is if HMRC doesn't get this con-doc through parliament, how does it affect their lives? their families lives? will anyone inside that organisation be made bankrupt before being proved they have done something wrong? I doubt it...

If they do get their way - its another story, this affects real people significantly, it affects children - none of which have done anything wrong.

Maybe it will happen anyway, but for those going through it perhaps a little empathy from those who are not would not go amiss?

[smalldog]

Im the first to say, hands up I made a bad decision. I am older and wiser and with a new wife and daughter who have no history associated with any of this. Are they to also be held to account for my actions some 14 years ago and their lives ruined? I would hope anyone with an ounce of humanity can see that it is not fair to do so.

So yes, I made a bad call, and yes it was maybe naive to think I would get away with it, but I only have that view with hindsight some 14 years older and wiser.

So lets get all the snipes out the way, so lets draw a line and move on and get to the real problem, the abuse of power which HMRC can seem to get away with, and without question from the establishment.

[bananarepublic]

Collection of tax

Didn't HMRC say in open court that they would not collect any money off us until the process of hearings and appeals had been exhausted? There was even some debate about whether this extended to the prospective ECHR hearings.

Am I missing something here?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Didn't HMRC say in open court that they would not collect any money off us until the process of hearings and appeals had been exhausted? There was even some debate about whether this extended to the prospective ECHR hearings.

Am I missing something here?

I suspect they will argue this only applied to the JR proceedings (HC, CofA, SC). If you recall, after the SC refused leave to appeal, Brannigan sent out a newsletter saying this was the end of the legal process as far as HMRC were concerned, and all that remained was to discharge tax appeals.

This was borne out by what happened last year in the case of Shiner et al.

HMRC refused to postpone collection, pending their appeals, and the taxpayers had to apply to the FTT to overturn this.

[SantaClaus]

Regarding the whole moral debate about whether we "deserved" this or not...

I was tempted to write "War and Peace" on this subjected, but decided not too.

What I will say is it is no coincidence that CUK is awash with threads and news articles discussing how so many contractors have fallen into a tax trap in one way or another.

We have BN66, EBTs, German tax authorities pursuing people, IR35 being "consulted" in Parliament.
Wherever you step, there is a trap waiting to get you. Even IR35 will come back to bite a lot of people who thought they were doing things by the book.

Why are there so many threads on CUK discussing these matters?

At a time when countries have huge national debts, there is only one thing they can do - raid your piggy banks!