No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Corrian]

really wish i'd never listened to this... my blood is boiling! Democracy. Bunch of public schoolboys is how it sounds.

Me too, That was not Democracy. They just all rolled over to Gauke and cracked a few jokes to spin it out for the last 5 mins, I'm disgusted ! It wasn't even debated....there's something fishy going on here, that wasn't right.

[MMSguru]

Let's wait...

Does anyone know what happens next then? The amendment was withdrawn dispite lots of agreement about how awful retrospection is and Gauke just reading out the usual pre-prepared puff piece. Now what?

to see what Whitehouse have to say tomorrow.

[Toocan]

Why did he withdraw it, there was plenty of support, only Gauke opposed.

Probing amendments are always withdrawn - that's the system. The important point is that it was discussed. I would have liked that to have been longer but there you are.

Can't quite believe the chip fat however....

[OldITGit]

Gauke was wrong

He said it only impacted those involved, what about families etc, 3,000 individuals (not 2000 as Nigel Mills stated). there is something badly wrong here, it looks as if in the current financial situation that the Government are putting HMRC above the law of the land, condoning their actions which is totally beyond the pale. I was not impressed with the way NM spoke about NC4 he seemed nervous and did not deliver the facts coherently...maybe its just my suspicious mind..no doubt Gauke bought the first round at the bar tonite.
A Now that further posts have explained how the process works I feel happier and well done to those in the Committee that supported us

[StellaFan]

He said it only impacted those involved, what about families etc, 3,000 individuals (not 2000 as Nigel Mills stated). there is something badly wrong here, it looks as if in the current financial situation that the Government are putting HMRC above the law of the land, condoning their actions which is totally beyond the pale. I was not impressed with the way NM spoke about NC4 he seemed nervous and did not deliver the facts coherently...maybe its just my suspicious mind..no doubt Gake bought the first round at the bar tonite.

Did he not also pretty much suggest that hmrc warned it was being challenged so tough sh*t on anyone who has spent the dough?

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

He said it only impacted those involved, what about families etc, 3,000 individuals (not 2000 as Nigel Mills stated). there is something badly wrong here, it looks as if in the current financial situation that the Government are putting HMRC above the law of the land, condoning their actions which is totally beyond the pale. I was not impressed with the way NM spoke about NC4 he seemed nervous and did not deliver the facts coherently...maybe its just my suspicious mind..no doubt Gake bought the first round at the bar tonite.

I appreciate that it is hard to go thorugh events like this and only find you appear to be the least relevant part. Consider today as being part of a process. Today, fingerprints were taken. Nothing major. No charges or even witness testimony. With more time it could have become more interesting. But take note, the only people that spoke were in favour of Mills position. That does not make a solution.

BTW, 2000 is not the number that Mills had from us. I'll leave you to think where that number came from. But he knows that. And yes I can see why you think he came across as a bit nervous. But I think that worked. Didn't hear people laughing at what he said.

[Dieselpower]

Victory

There can be no doubt that today we scored some points - our amendment was a probing one - to elicit some more nonsense from Gauke, and a. he didnt even mention his previous standard line of the courts have decided b. tried to say that we are all loaded (!!!) and c. stated that when HMRC open an enquiry into your tax return you must put all you activities on pause, sell your house, and assume automatically that you owe HMRC a lot of money (many tax enquiries result in REBATES)

Those were his arguments, and I have to say they are all extraordinarily weak, and easily shot to smithereens. We will see the transcript tomorrow, and I am of the firm view that Gauke has just dug his hole a tad deeper, especially given his 2008 objections to the very same matter.

The good news is that we have reached an important milestone - something to build upon. Our plight has been aired, noone spoke against us EXCEPT Gauke; several Tories supported us, and Fabian Hamilton was brilliant.

I see this is as a very positive day - perhaps because I understood that a probing amendment is simply meant, at this early stage of our progressive campaign, to elicit views from people, and air the matter publicly.

I wouldnt be surprised if the matter is raised again at the Report Stage of the Bill - I understand that some MP's who are not on the Finance Bill would prefer this anyway, thus giving them an oppo to speak in our favour, all with the advance benefit of knowing Gauke's untenably weak position.

So, although we are all a tad pi()ed off that chip fat and point of order people delayed matters, we did achieve this initial objective - 3 months ago this wasn't even a possibility.

Well done Whitehouse. Well done NTRT. What do you want us to do next?

[the great escape]

Was it Jacob Rees-Mogg who was very vocal about his opposition to retrospection?

Well, I personally felt that in the space of several minutes, if that was indeed all we had post-chip fat (words fail me), that Nigel Mills did a great job of summing up. Also positive was 2-3 other MPs throwing weight behind it. No one seemed to disagree apart from GobblyGauke. Why can't JRM move into pole position and take over the treasury?

As for the interpretation of events, are we saying that withdrawing the clause means they'll take it out for further review (before reinserting amended or not) at some later stage? Great stuff all round and hats off to the NTRT campaign.

[Corrian]

Mills

Mills was a bit weak, he raised a few good points, but honestly I think I could of done a better job. 5 mins debate then a quick with draw, It all seems like a Gauke / Mills stitch up to me. I wish we had that big Geordie fighting our corner that was on earlier, everybody seem tulip scared of him....

[Dieselpower]

a probing amendment is always withdrawn

Mills was a bit weak, he raised a few good points, but honestly I think I could of done a better job. 5 mins debate then a quick with draw, It all seems like a Gauke / Mills stitch up to me. I wish we had that big Geordie fighting our corner that was on earlier, everybody seem tulip scared of him....

....and it had to be withdrawn by the 9pm curfew - mills knew he only had a few minutes, unlike his geordie friend who spouted crap about swiss bank accounts for a whole bl**dy hour. I have to say I completely disagree with your view on Mills - he stood up for his own principles as a Tory MP, and a huge amount of work went into that happening by NTRT and Whitehouse.