Self Billing Invoice vs own invoice accountant won't accept my own invoice ?

[blinko]

Yes as above, you will need to generate an invoice on the system to replicate the payment received, the only difference in this system is that

In the normal course of business supplier generates invoice, and client pay.

In this case, client pay and you generate invoice.

[Bumfluff]

Agreed must be for there own processes, getting a tad annoyed with this lot of accoutants, understand they need processes but I don't feel like a customer I just feel like there b*tch and there is just no flexibilty its there way or no way.

[CheeseSlice]

I looked into this a while ago because an agent was sending me self-billing invoices and I didn't want them to (they cocked up quite a few payments by miscalculating VAT dropping days off the invoice, and even overpaying at times).

I found that in order to self-bill they would need a self-billing agreement in place (which they didn't), usually a document signed by both parties agreeing the arrangement. They needed this because part of the agreement was to allow the agent to calculate VAT on your behalf. Until the agreement is in place I believe the supplier is always liable for calculating the correct amount of VAT, and the agent can't do this for you. e.g. you may get a penny or two of discrepancy if agency sums the individual VAT for each line item then adds to the sum of the net, rather than perhaps 'you' calculating VAT on the summed net amount. In this case the agency must pay what you actually charge, regardless of which way you add the VAT up.

To the OP, I would check your contact paper work to find any reference to a self-billing agreement between agency and supplier. In my case I won the argument and had the agent remove me from self-billing. They would have had to terminate my contract to force me back onto it.

[Edit: completely misread the OP question , thought they were arguing with agent, not accountant. I'll leave this post here anyway should anyone find it useful]

[BolshieBastard]

Hi,

Current agent generates self billing invoices, on some occassions due to there cr*p system I have not recieved these just the payment, so these months I've just generated the invoice myself and sent to accountant. Accountant now telling me they won't accept my own invoices for the date I didnt recieve the self bill one as its HMRC legislation it has to be the self bill invoice, is that correct I thought an invoice was just an invoice at the end of day ?

If your co is VAT registered and has a self billing agreement, the agency will have an agreement with HMRC that you should not raise an invoice.

Im rather surprised soemone who is supposed to be an accountant on here, doesnt know that basic facts!

[malvolio]

If your co is VAT registered and has a self billing agreement, the agency will have an agreement with HMRC that you should not raise an invoice.

Im rather surprised soemone who is supposed to be an accountant on here, doesnt know that basic facts!

Actually the rule is that you should not submit an invoice for payment; YourCo can raise whatever paperwork it wants to. There is nothing to say you can't maintain your own invoicing process in order to simplify your book-keeping and auditability across multiple clients.

If you want to get really confused, try an apply the continuing supply of services to the regulations, which are geared towards the repeat delivery of specific items generating an uninvoiced automatic payment, and relate that to the requirement to supply an authorised timesheet prior to payment

[Bumfluff]

If your co is VAT registered and has a self billing agreement, the agency will have an agreement with HMRC that you should not raise an invoice.

Im rather surprised soemone who is supposed to be an accountant on here, doesnt know that basic facts!

I'm not an accountant

[NickWallace87]

I would advise all clients to create their own internal invoice regardless of whether there's a self bill system in place, that way you have them available should HMRC ever ask.

I think your accountant might want them for his systems or processes, not any legal requirement.

I'm think this HMRC guidance may contradict this advice.

HM Revenue & Customs

If you are a self-billee, you must:

not raise sales invoices for any transactions with your self-biller for the period of your self-billing agreement with him. The agreement will last either for a period of 12 months or, if you have a contract with your customer, for the duration of that contract;

[Clare@InTouch]

I'm think this HMRC guidance may contradict this advice.

HM Revenue & Customs

If you are a self-billee, you must:

not raise sales invoices for any transactions with your self-biller for the period of your self-billing agreement with him. The agreement will last either for a period of 12 months or, if you have a contract with your customer, for the duration of that contract;

I'm talking about raising an invoice for your own records, not raising one to give to the client.

[pacontracting]

Self billing

I'm talking about raising an invoice for your own records, not raising one to give to the client.

The important thing to remember with Self billing invoicing is that the Agency is raising invoices on your behalf. Providing a proper self-billing model is in place (e.g. agency has agreement with HMRC and engaged your co properly) - the agent will now raise the invoice on your behalf.

Why is this important? All invoices must have a unique number. If the agent is now raising invoices on your behalf then you raise an invoice for your own records - providing the Invoice numbers are the same you should be ok. If they are not (or worse - the agent raised a self-billing invoice with a number you have already used) - then problems may arise from HMRC for both the client and you.

This is the reason the accountant is asking for the self-billing invoices and won't accept your own 'copy'.

[Swamp Thing]

The important thing to remember with Self billing invoicing is that the Agency is raising invoices on your behalf. Providing a proper self-billing model is in place (e.g. agency has agreement with HMRC and engaged your co properly) - the agent will now raise the invoice on your behalf.

Why is this important? All invoices must have a unique number. If the agent is now raising invoices on your behalf then you raise an invoice for your own records - providing the Invoice numbers are the same you should be ok. If they are not (or worse - the agent raised a self-billing invoice with a number you have already used) - then problems may arise from HMRC for both the client and you.

This is the reason the accountant is asking for the self-billing invoices and won't accept your own 'copy'.

So, a) since the self-bill invoice is recognised by HMRC as an invoice, b) provided each self-bill invoice number is unique, and c) since you can only use this number when generating your internal invoice: Why bother creating the internal invoice?
Seems like a waste of effort to me, unless there is some other reason I haven't seen where HMRC want to see an internal invoice?..