Rates: Day v hour rates

[craig1]

A request for hints here. Offered a new role in Cambridge, rate is a moderate day rate but they're very clear that I may be expected to work very long hours. They're refusing to put hours in the contract, simply stating that the rate is for "work as required" on a set day.

Now, I'm not one to shirk from hard work and have been known to work for 12+ hours a day for quite a long long term but I do expect to get paid for it.

The day rate assuming an eight hour day is moderate but for twelve hour days it becomes poor with a long commute.

I've asked them to either put expected working hours in the contract or convert the daily rate to an hourly one but they're very reluctant and the agency is saying they're threatening to withdraw the offer if I won't sign the contract as written by tomorrow. I've made it clear that I won't be rushed into a role that's unsuitable for me and my war chest is more than good enough to hold out for a "better" role; I don't think the agent is taking me seriously when I say that I'd rather walk than sign an iffy contract.

So... any advice on how to take it forward?

[xchaotic]

A request for hints here. Offered a new role in Cambridge, rate is a moderate day rate but they're very clear that I may be expected to work very long hours. They're refusing to put hours in the contract, simply stating that the rate is for "work as required" on a set day.

Now, I'm not one to shirk from hard work and have been known to work for 12+ hours a day for quite a long long term but I do expect to get paid for it.

The day rate assuming an eight hour day is moderate but for twelve hour days it becomes poor with a long commute.

I've asked them to either put expected working hours in the contract or convert the daily rate to an hourly one but they're very reluctant and the agency is saying they're threatening to withdraw the offer if I won't sign the contract as written by tomorrow. I've made it clear that I won't be rushed into a role that's unsuitable for me and my war chest is more than good enough to hold out for a "better" role; I don't think the agent is taking me seriously when I say that I'd rather walk than sign an iffy contract.

So... any advice on how to take it forward?

I really keep forgetting to set my rate hourly, out of 4 contracts, I wish I'd done that for one , ironically the highest paid one anyway.

If at an interview stage, they already announce to expect you to work long hours that's plain poor management (doesn't leave room for error if thing get *really* tight). I'd enforce hourly rate and a clause that agency pays you regardless of whether client pays (as long as I submit signed timesheets - that's how my current contract works), otherwise I'd walk away, or more sneakily, accept and keep on looking for other options should things go sour.

[SorenLorensen]

I think you're dealing with it the right way, I had a similar offer earlier this year. I walked away from it. The terms and rate were not suitable given the hours they were expecting me to work. Put the pressure on the agency. You're in a good position since your war chest is healthy - look for something better and don't let them take the piss.

[Scrag Meister]

I think you're dealing with it the right way, I had a similar offer earlier this year. I walked away from it. The terms and rate were not suitable given the hours they were expecting me to work. Put the pressure on the agency. You're in a good position since your war chest is healthy - look for something better and don't let them take the piss.

WSLS

Call the agencies bluff, only you know your ability to keep funding your life from your warchest.

GL whatever the outcome.

[BlasterBates]

Basically sounds pretty sh*t really.

Your call, but long commute and long hours, sounds like something you could only stand for a few months, this would drive you up the wall.

[craig1]

Thanks for that!

Progress since my first post. Call from agent that they've agreed to change to hourly rates but at no more than day rate/10. I told them it was unacceptable and that I'd prefer day/7.5. Agent unwilling to go back to the client with that.

As it's a potentially interesting role with new challenges, I relented and said I'd be prepared to do a one-off deal of an hourly rate of day/8.75 with a cap of 50 hours per week then day/5 for everything over. Agent still unwilling so I told him that if the client won't go to that then the excess can either come off the agent's cut or put a hard working hour cap of 50 hours and day/8.5.

Agent's exact words were: "why are you being so difficult over this"

I think I'll be having more time for Christmas shopping then

[jmo21]

Thanks for that!

Progress since my first post. Call from agent that they've agreed to change to hourly rates but at no more than day rate/10. I told them it was unacceptable and that I'd prefer day/7.5. Agent unwilling to go back to the client with that.

As it's a potentially interesting role with new challenges, I relented and said I'd be prepared to do a one-off deal of an hourly rate of day/8.75 with a cap of 50 hours per week then day/5 for everything over. Agent still unwilling so I told him that if the client won't go to that then the excess can either come off the agent's cut or put a hard working hour cap of 50 hours and day/8.5.

Agent's exact words were: "why are you being so difficult over this"

I think I'll be having more time for Christmas shopping then

The agent is a knob! You've suggested a solution that's more than reasonable to get the deal done, especially as the rate is only moderate as you put it on a normal working day.

That being said, huge red flag for me at the off-set as others have said, notice of poor management/bad project up front, but also suggests to me they treat contractors like muck - I'm guessing day rate was all agreed before they then mentioned the hours - how convenient.

Having a good warchest should make the decision even easier.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Might be missing something obvious here, but is there any reason why the contract can't just specify a day as 8 hours, and your 12 hour day gets billed as 1.5 days at whatever the day rate is?

EDIT: just saw re-read and you mentioned that the client will not define a day in the contract as a set number of hours. Isn't it normal practice to define ambiguous terms like "day" in a contract? If you can afford to walk away from it, I would. The only person being awkward is the agent.

I'd go back to the agent and say that you would be willing to work to a day rate as long as the number of hours in a day is defined in the contract (e.g. 8 hours) and any extra hours will be billed pro-rata, or your previous offer as above and make it clear it's your final offer and that they can take it or leave it.

[craig1]

The agent is a knob! You've suggested a solution that's more than reasonable to get the deal done, especially as the rate is only moderate as you put it on a normal working day.

That being said, huge red flag for me at the off-set as others have said, notice of poor management/bad project up front, but also suggests to me they treat contractors like muck - I'm guessing day rate was all agreed before they then mentioned the hours - how convenient.

Having a good warchest should make the decision even easier.

Offer withdrawn Client told agent to withdraw my offer because I "wasn't flexible enough". I think they might struggle to get an experienced contractor to stay, especially for what is a very tough project that needs a very firm pair of hands in charge.

Rate isn't the big issue for me, I'll happily come right down the rates for a good local role for a company that treats contractors with respect but I'll expect very good money to work for iffy companies, especially if there's a decent commute/stay away involved. £420 a day is bottom-end for a contract like this.

I'm reviewing the confidentiality agreement now, if I can find a loophole then I'll name and shame agency and client. Unlikely though as it's a very sensitive project and they want complete confidentiality.

Thanks for all the advice, made my decision easier and made me think I'm less of a primadonna for holding out.

[billybiro]

Agent's exact words were: "why are you being so difficult over this"

To which I sincerely hope your response was, "Because I'm not a f&*%ing doormat!"