A Health & Safety Reminder - IR35 Consideration

[GillsMan]

Hi, quick query this one.

I'm comfortably outside IR35, but need to be careful nevertheless. I received an email a few weeks ago via my client's staff email (I've been set up with an account on their email system) asking all staff to complete a DSE Assessment. I ignored it because a) I'm not staff and b) it's all bollocks anyway. It's all about how safe my working environment is - I work at a desk ffs, it's hardly the middle of the Congo.

A further email has been sent out today (addressed Dear Staff) to those that haven't completed the form - it's been sent to other contractors as well.

So, should I be IR35 investigated, could completing this form, which looks like something a permie would have to fill in, count against me? I doubt an IR35 could hinge on one form, but I'd rather not fill it in if it'd look bad in anyway.

Cheers.

[pmeswani]

Hi, quick query this one.

I'm comfortably outside IR35, but need to be careful nevertheless. I received an email a few weeks ago via my client's staff email (I've been set up with an account on their email system) asking all staff to complete a DSE Assessment. I ignored it because a) I'm not staff and b) it's all bollocks anyway. It's all about how safe my working environment is - I work at a desk ffs, it's hardly the middle of the Congo.

A further email has been sent out today (addressed Dear Staff) to those that haven't completed the form - it's been sent to other contractors as well.

So, should I be IR35 investigated, could completing this form, which looks like something a permie would have to fill in, count against me? I doubt an IR35 could hinge on one form, but I'd rather not fill it in if it'd look bad in anyway.

Cheers.

Your client has an obligation to the Health and Safety of everyone that is on their site. If the fire alarm went off, are you going to say... "Hmm.. I won't evacuate as it may affect my IR35 status"? If I were you, I would do the DSE Assessment and move on. It won't affect your Working Practice, and won't take long, so can't see what the problem is.

[d000hg]

The HSE At Work poster (which they probably have on a wall somewhere) specifically mentions contractors, IIRC. I looked online but couldn't find a version hi-res enough to read.

[northernladuk]

Hi, quick query this one.

I'm comfortably outside IR35, but need to be careful nevertheless. I received an email a few weeks ago via my client's staff email (I've been set up with an account on their email system) asking all staff to complete a DSE Assessment. I ignored it because a) I'm not staff and b) it's all bollocks anyway. It's all about how safe my working environment is - I work at a desk ffs, it's hardly the middle of the Congo.

A further email has been sent out today (addressed Dear Staff) to those that haven't completed the form - it's been sent to other contractors as well.

So, should I be IR35 investigated, could completing this form, which looks like something a permie would have to fill in, count against me? I doubt an IR35 could hinge on one form, but I'd rather not fill it in if it'd look bad in anyway.

Cheers.

I think you have to apply a modicum of common sense sometimes. The reason they ask you to complete the form is to keep you healthy and the company from getting sued further down the line. It is not client control or direction, it is to comply with laws the client has to adhere to.

It would a pretty crap situation if one goverment agency forced you in to break the law of another goverment agency while trying to run your business.

Fill it in and forget about it. If you are that bothered make a note on it to the extent you are a contractor but you are filling it in to help the client if you are really that bothered.

If this were an issue then you should be worry more about the fact you probably signed or agreed to follow the clients data porcess when getting an email account... but don't worry about that either. Just an example.

[SueEllen]

To put the OP at ease this is from the Health and Safety At Work etc Act 1974:

(1) It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.

*my bold highlighting

[GillsMan]

Lovely - thanks all. Very useful advice on all counts. Just to clarify, my concern was that, reading the form, it was all about "health and safety" at a workstation (so the emphasis is, I guess, on health rather than "safety"). Lots of questions about whether my seat is comfortable and whether there is glare on my monitor, and all that guff.

I do have an allocated desk for when I'm on site (which is used by other people when I'm not in), but all this talk of making sure the desk I use was comfortable did sound worryingly like permiedom, so I just wanted to double-check my bases.

Thanks again!

[Mustang]

Do you really think that HMRC is going to check every form that you filled in for a client?

In addition, in our current litigious climate, is not reasonable to check that even people who are onsite doing work for you are following procedures? If you lent a worker a chain saw and they were not using it properly wouldn't you advise them or want to rectify the situation so they didnt misuse it and sue you? Why should a desk and PC be any different?

HTH

[GillsMan]

Do you really think that HMRC is going to check every form that you filled in for a client?

In addition, in our current litigious climate, is not reasonable to check that even people who are onsite doing work for you are following procedures? If you lent a worker a chain saw and they were not using it properly wouldn't you advise them or want to rectify the situation so they didnt misuse it and sue you? Why should a desk and PC be any different?

HTH

If I was investigated by the HMRC, then I'd rather assume that anything I've ever written down can be reviewed by the HMRC, hence my caution.

Er, are you really asking why a desk and PC would be different from a chain saw? Wow. As I explained, my concern was mainly down to my impression that a form regarding the suitability of a workstation in terms of things like the adjustability of chairs, glare from your monitor, etc, seemed like something a permie would have to fill in (after all, they have permanent workstations, I don't).

[TykeMerc]

With this sort of thing I take the attitude that client H&S rules have to be followed as they apply site wide.

I always drop a note to the organisers to check that they're aware I'm a contractor and not staff and it invariably comes back that the training or evaluations are site wide and mandatory irrespective of being staff or supplier.

[GillsMan]

With this sort of thing I take the attitude that client H&S rules have to be followed as they apply site wide.

I always drop a note to the organisers to check that they're aware I'm a contractor and not staff and it invariably comes back that the training or evaluations are site wide and mandatory irrespective of being staff or supplier.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. That's pretty much what I did tbh. Hopefully I'll be able to avoid the tedious inevitability of training in how to adjust my chair and other such nuggets.