Reply to: A Health & Safety Reminder - IR35 Consideration

[TykeMerc]

in the happy world of clientco, health and safety is health, safety and the environment so monitors being left switched on, icy paths and wasted paper all count towards the 4 a month target.

magically, everyone meets the target. it's amazing the rubbish that people will make up when there's money at stake.

Completely barmy!

By setting this daft target they're actively promoting people deliberately creating a risk just to solve it, I'd love to see their faces if someone gets hurt as a result of that behaviour.

Ok, that's a good one to put on their HSE target. Company policy that actively encourages the creation of risk!

I admit that a lot of the HSE stuff is pretty trivial, but having worked in military, aerospace and naval environments some of their HSE stuff is life saving so I'm not totally cynical about the issue.

[d000hg]

This sounds like fun, who can think of the most stupid possible risks... However while the company has a legal duty to provide a safe environment for you even as a contractor, I'm pretty sure that doesn't imply you have to do this if you don't want to.

[Wanderer]

magically, everyone meets the target. it's amazing the rubbish that people will make up when there's money at stake.

Send that into the guy who does Dilbert, they love new ideas and your client may even make it into a cartoon.

[mr_do!]

in the happy world of clientco, health and safety is health, safety and the environment so monitors being left switched on, icy paths and wasted paper all count towards the 4 a month target.

magically, everyone meets the target. it's amazing the rubbish that people will make up when there's money at stake.

[TykeMerc]

i am !

it turns into a bit of a farce for employees actually because people have to covertly create unsafe conditions so that they can report on them and then correct them.

still not convinced that i should be doing 4 a month ...

Good grief, go with it and report things like having to walk on the cracks in the pavement (they could be grouted), chair wheels with axles marginally off centre, lack of airlocks on every window, door and air vent in case of the planet losing its atmosphere.

HSE is a sensible thing to pay attention to, but 4 things per person per month? That's total insanity.

[Wanderer]

i am !

it turns into a bit of a farce for employees actually because people have to covertly create unsafe conditions so that they can report on them and then correct them.

still not convinced that i should be doing 4 a month ...

What if you don't meet the target?

And how on earth are monitors being left on a "health and safety" risk? Sounds like bit of a moronic site to be honest.

It's going to be a very minor pointer if anything and not worth bothering about. I'd just go with the flow and comply with their silly system...

[RichardCranium]

i am !

it turns into a bit of a farce for employees actually because people have to covertly create unsafe conditions so that they can report on them and then correct them.

You are kidding? Management expects every person on site to find a H&S breach, every week? And they get in trouble if they don't hit the quota?

That's insane.

IR35 is the least of your worries.

(And I'm still sure it doesn't apply because H&S considerations over-rule just about everything; being a contractor does not exempt you from following safe working practices, and if the barking mad mental-case overlords at your ClientCo have done a safety assessment that says 52 breaches per person on site per annum is an improvement, you'd better do your bit to help.)

[mr_do!]

i am !

it turns into a bit of a farce for employees actually because people have to covertly create unsafe conditions so that they can report on them and then correct them.

still not convinced that i should be doing 4 a month ...

[RichardCranium]

all employees have targets to enter data into a computer system every month. entering the requisite number of items into the system means that boxes are ticked when it comes to monthly reviews and performance pay.

the targets are broken down into categories and one of these is health and safety.

So are you supposed to find and record 4 H&S problems a month?

[mr_do!]

all employees have targets to enter data into a computer system every month. entering the requisite number of items into the system means that boxes are ticked when it comes to monthly reviews and performance pay.

the targets are broken down into categories and one of these is health and safety.

i'm worried about the numerical nature of these targets ...

[RichardCranium]

They have a duty of care for staff contractors, sub-contractors, visitors, etc. That includes you.

They will have done some form of H&S assessment and determined standards are low, hence the enforced training.

All they are doing is imposing the same H&S standards onto their suppliers.

It is no different from having contractors on a building site having to sign a sheet every day on arrival to say they are wearing their hard hat, boots and yellow jacket.

It is just so ClientCo can say "We have done everything we can to reduce the H&S risk".

Edit: actually, just what is a "health and safety related ticket"?

[mr_do!]

sorry to hijack the thread but i'm in a very similar position at the client site.

i've been there for 3 years now. employees have to complete a minimum of 4 health and safety related tickets every month as part of their yearly targets, things like monitors being left on overnight, paths around the office being icy, etc.

i'm now being asked to do the same and this 4 per month target has now been inserted into my new contract.

should i sign this ? i've been happy to comply with health and safety policy but having a monthly target is a bit too similar to the targets that the staff have to reach.

it's unlikely that the company will accept a flat "no" on this issue. would removing the number make it seem like less of a target ?

[ASB]

I didn't actually know that. Think may be I should start taking this sort of thing a little more seriously.

Another minor point is that a bunch of regulations tend to use the term "worker". This basically covers anybody.

People quite often go to jail for serious HSE breaches (ok there has usually been a fatality and this is covered by a specific act of parliament). This tends to occur even if the unfortunate victim was quite willingly undertaking the task. Often involves workers rather than staff.

[GillsMan]

It is health and safety.

The Display Screen Regulations are part of the Health and Safety laws as in theory you can sue the client if you are placed in a position where your health is damaged because of how your workstation is set up or what they expect you to do while using them.

Though if your workstation is not set up properly then the worker needs to try and get it rectified as both the worker and employer have responsibilities under the H&S legislation.

To be honest the only incidents I know of where payments have been made out are due to union involvement, and that was due to how the worker was made to work.

I didn't actually know that. Think may be I should start taking this sort of thing a little more seriously.

[SueEllen]

It's not really health and safety in the same way that ensuring you can use a chainsaw would be - it's more staff wellment or something like that. But I get what you mean regarding supply of equipment.

It is health and safety.

The Display Screen Regulations are part of the Health and Safety laws as in theory you can sue the client if you are placed in a position where your health is damaged because of how your workstation is set up or what they expect you to do while using them.

Though if your workstation is not set up properly then the worker needs to try and get it rectified as both the worker and employer have responsibilities under the H&S legislation.

To be honest the only incidents I know of where payments have been made out are due to union involvement, and that was due to how the worker was made to work.