Client insists on me using their computers

[northernladuk]

Hmmm, some interesting answers here. But, I thought one of the corner stones of HMRC's arguement to being a disguised employee and hence iR35 caught, was, do you provide your own equipment or do you use the client's?

Its also to be noted several contract review companies specifically ask whether you provide your own equipment for the role.

The analogy of using the clients desk, chairs, coffee machine etc is a good one but even so, I think even HMRC know that it is impractical to bring your own desk and chair. One would consider their view of IT equipment to be totally different however.

Where possible is the key word in this argument though. I think it is a given that companies have tight security which in a lot of cases is imposed on them by law or something. HMCR are not going to put companies at risk by imposing rules that would not allow them to take on contractors. At my client we have one of the biggest outsourcing companies in the world working on site and even they are using client PC's. I do think it is important to try and get out where possible. I use my own phone for example but when it is something imposed by the client on reasonable grounds you should be fine. Make sure however you do have your own PC as evidence though. No company has no PC's so at least if you show willing by having your kit you are more than covered.

[northernladuk]

Forgot to add. One the you can do which most of contractors do here is bring in their own laptops and connect to the wirless connection provided for outsourced agents to let them connect remotely to their systems. You can argue then you are using your PC for doing your business's work on but use the clients PC's for accessing their systems.

Problem here is we get a lot of stick as permies are constantly complaining we do it just so we can browse internet freely so we bypass any interest usage policies the client uses. Doesn't help that some of the guys have facebook up constantly on thier personal laptops

[malvolio]

The key question here is the Direction and Control one and is it D&C if the client demands you do "something". To which the answer is no, not if everyone, permie and contractor alike, has to adhere to the same demands and there is a valid business reason - like not exposing your network to someone's unknown PC, or requiring support staff to work the same hours as the users they are supporting.

"Using your own PC" is a minor pointer anyway, and if HMRC had to get to that level to prove IR35 caught, I suspect the court would giggle quietly and tell them to grow up.

[xoggoth]

Having to provide your own equipment would be a good pointer away from IR35 certainly but that doesn't mean that having to use theirs is a pointer to it. If there are valid reasons it should be a neutral point.

Ok ok, minor.

[Wanderer]

i have just started my own Ltd Co, and trying to stay out of IR35.

There are three things you need to concentrate on, any one of them is a trump card for you:

• Right of Substitution: Is there a requirement for the worker’s personal service?
• Direction and Control: Is there a sufficient degree of control over the worker?
• Mutuality of obligation: Are the mutual obligations of the contract consistent with employment?

All the others are minor points, they may be useful in a borderline case but I wouldn't lose any sleep over them - you'll probably just annoy the hell out of the client by arguing the point over them.

Check out this link IR35:Substitution, control and mutuality of obligation :: Contractor UK

[zedAccounts]

Greetings,

I have been with my current client since August 2009 as a contractor via an umbrella co. Contract has just been renewed (for the 4th time) and so i have just started my own Ltd Co, and trying to stay out of IR35.

However, the client (who are heavy on security) insist that i use their own equipment, and won't let me connect my own computer (a laptop) to their company network.

I know there are other factors to consider for IR35, but in this particular part, how would this look from HMRC's POV, trying to stiff me with IR35?

Has anyone come across this with a client?

KingCook.

I don't think that having to use client's equipment alone will put you inside IR35. Make sure that issues like control, MOO and ROS are in your favour.

ZED.

[malvolio]

Check out this link IR35:Substitution, control and mutuality of obligation :: Contractor UK

Too much reading. Try The Potted Guide to IR35 | Contractor Accountants

[Not So Wise]

Has anyone come across this with a client?

In 10 plus years never had a client let me use my own equipment if connecting to their network, as they don’t know if your hardware/OS meet their most basic security standards. Basic security 101 really (Double so for people in my line of work as I normally end up with pretty high privileges)

And in regards to your changing from "in to out" with IR35, if in pretty much same role with same client and just changed intermediate company that is a fight i would say you would lose if ever investigated

[doodab]

Or you might get answers like this....

Make sure you don't use clientcos chairs either, you can definitely be done for that. I would suggest getting yourself one from Homebase or Ikea etc. and bringing it in with you tomorrow.

I have my own chair (a Herman Miller Aeron), desk, development server etc. I don't take them into client offices but I do usually bring a decent mouse and occasionally keyboard.

I had one IT manager with a ftse 30 company who suggested that I was more likely to get a virus from them than vice versa but that's the exception rather than the norm in big companies.

[darmstadt]

Seeing as most of my customers computers are multiple mainframes, I might have a problem using my own