Agency won't change contract?

[NotAllThere]

It would be interesting to know what your accountant failed the contract on. While no replacement for a qualified legal opinion, there's enough experience here to tell you whether your accountant is being really dumb or not.

Even if you are in IR35, a ltdco is still a better option - you control your money, rather than a 3rd party.

[Bexter]

hi everyone, just an update on my situation.
I sent the contract off for review with Bauer and Cotterell and it seems my contract is definately inside IR35, mainly due to just the actual realities of the work I'm doing, i.e. no point even re-writing the contract because it wouldn't reflect reality etc. My agent and my accountant gave me conflicting advice, but eventually I think I now understand what I'm doing.

So, long and the short of it is, I've gone Umbrella!

But I just wanted to say thanks for the advice etc...this is my first contracting experience and I had no idea it would be so complicated or that there was so much stuff I'd need to consider. But this site has been really helpful and there is tons of useful info on here, so cheers!

[cojak]

Our pleasure.

Take care and don't forget to come back to visit (I'm sure that won't be your last question... )

[Sally BFCA]

hi everyone, just an update on my situation.
I sent the contract off for review with Bauer and Cotterell and it seems my contract is definately inside IR35, mainly due to just the actual realities of the work I'm doing, i.e. no point even re-writing the contract because it wouldn't reflect reality etc. My agent and my accountant gave me conflicting advice, but eventually I think I now understand what I'm doing.

A case where it proves that it pays off to use a professional company to do the contract reviews, that's what they do best.

[northernladuk]

Glad you got the answer even if itsn't the one you wanted.

There is a very interesting thread going on at the moment about being in and out of IR35 and why don't you just always say you are out and suck it up if you get caught.

I don't think we ever came to a conclusion with some saying thats bad and some saying seems fair enough. Might be worth a read and then consider what action you take based on your aversion to risk.

The only thing that might be a problem is your Accountant. Ethically he won't do your accounts as outside if he knows you are inside. If he didn't know and you told him outside then thats different.

Might have a read of that. Interesting opinions on how many contracts we think really are inside but we try and convince yourselves they are out my fudging the contracts etc....

[Sally BFCA]

Glad you got the answer even if itsn't the one you wanted.

There is a very interesting thread going on at the moment about being in and out of IR35 and why don't you just always say you are out and suck it up if you get caught.

I don't think we ever came to a conclusion with some saying thats bad and some saying seems fair enough. Might be worth a read and then consider what action you take based on your aversion to risk.

The only thing that might be a problem is your Accountant. Ethically he won't do your accounts as outside if he knows you are inside. If he didn't know and you told him outside then thats different.

Might have a read of that. Interesting opinions on how many contracts we think really are inside but we try and convince yourselves they are out my fudging the contracts etc....

I was just looking at that discussion thread and posted that if you are found not to have taken 'reasonable care' then HMRC can impose fines of up to 200% of any unpaid taxes.

[Bexter]

Glad you got the answer even if itsn't the one you wanted.

There is a very interesting thread going on at the moment about being in and out of IR35 and why don't you just always say you are out and suck it up if you get caught.

I don't think we ever came to a conclusion with some saying thats bad and some saying seems fair enough. Might be worth a read and then consider what action you take based on your aversion to risk.

The only thing that might be a problem is your Accountant. Ethically he won't do your accounts as outside if he knows you are inside. If he didn't know and you told him outside then thats different.

Might have a read of that. Interesting opinions on how many contracts we think really are inside but we try and convince yourselves they are out my fudging the contracts etc....

This is very interesting, I've been reading that thread too. It seems from my discussions with friends as well as agents/accountants, the general opinion is, just say you're outside it, and if you get questioned then either fess up and pay or go to court and argue. But I just don't fancy the hassle to be honest. Its tempting cause the money is signficantly differnt under each, but for the first time I do this, just gonna play it straight.

If I was feeling a little less risk averse, I would probably go with an EBT over saying I was outside when I know I'm in.
[opens big can of worms...and walks away]

[MarillionFan]

I was just looking at that discussion thread and posted that if you are found not to have taken 'reasonable care' then HMRC can impose fines of up to 200% of any unpaid taxes.

Well that was the basis of the thread and poll. 2xpenalty versus 5 or 7 years(contracts) inside but stated outside.

It's a gamble! Depends if you like gambling!

[Wanderer]

I was just looking at that discussion thread and posted that if you are found not to have taken 'reasonable care' then HMRC can impose fines of up to 200% of any unpaid taxes.

I know there are no hard and fast rules, but if a contractor had their contract reviewed by a well known accountant and told that it was outside IR35, would this consitute "reasonable care"?

[Mr.Whippy]

I know there are no hard and fast rules, but if a contractor had their contract reviewed by a well known accountant and told that it was outside IR35, would this consitute "reasonable care"?

From the HMRC website :

Under the new system we will not penalise you if you take reasonable care to get your tax right. Taking reasonable care includes:

keeping accurate records to make sure your tax returns are correct

checking what the correct position is when you don't understand something

telling HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) promptly about any error you discover in a tax return or document after you've sent it

------------

So, getting a contract checked by a professional because you dont necessarily understand all the legalities would be reasonable care according to that imo.... although whether it is in eyes of HMRC is another thing.