2 Year Rule - Charging Clientco for travel

[opc]

opc,

What kind of justification are you going to give to the ClientCo in requesting a payment for travel time, in this economic climate, when you were happy with not asking for it for the last 2.5 years?

I would suspect, if you told them it is because you are losing out on tax, their reply is for you to manage your costs better...

Then again, who dares wins and all that

The client is reducing rates by 10%. It never occurred to me to book travel time before, but in the current economic climate my company is entitled to charge what it is contractually entitled to.

[opc]

If you're based at HQ, then, generally*, you can claim the travel to the other premises as an expense, without incurring a BIK charge. This is about your personal tax.

Yourco charging the client is entirely a contractual issue.

Don't confuse the two. The client should not be paying you directly for the mileage.


*Check the rules carefully, especially the 40% bit.

I am not confusing the two. I feel contractually entitled to charge the client travel time if I (travel to) work at their premises rather than mine.

[TykeMerc]

I am not confusing the two. I feel contractually entitled to charge the client travel time if I (travel to) work at their premises rather than mine.

So long as it's in your contract that you can charge for travel time no problem, although an obvious question is why on earth haven't you been doing so since you started?

Of course if it's not explicitly included in the contract you might well have a fight on your hands that could be instantly fatal to the contract unless you play it right.

[Billy Pilgrim]

opc,

What kind of justification are you going to give to the ClientCo in requesting a payment for travel time, in this economic climate, when you were happy with not asking for it for the last 2.5 years?

I would suspect, if you told them it is because you are losing out on tax, their reply is for you to manage your costs better...

Then again, who dares wins and all that

He could justifiably tell them that his operating costs have risen (by just over 20% of the total amount of his total travel expenses ) due to the fact that his contract has exceeded 2 yrs.

[malvolio]

He could justifiably tell them that his operating costs have risen (by just over 20% of the total amount of his total travel expenses ) due to the fact that his contract has exceeded 2 yrs.

And...?

The OP can renegotiate, obviously, but there is no contractual or legal reason for anyone to take any notice until renewal.

[deckster]

Correct. I am not trying to claim expenses. It just occurred that if other suppliers head office is say in London, and they travel to Bristol to work for the client, they would charge the client travel time.

Really? Which consultancies do this then? I've been working in consulting & services, both permie and contractor, for over 10 years and I've never known this as a common practice. Occasionally, when there's a regular long commute, you might negotiate late starts or noon Monday-noon Friday (and make up the hours during the week!), but as a general rule this just isn't true.

[Billy Pilgrim]

And...?

The OP can renegotiate, obviously, but there is no contractual or legal reason for anyone to take any notice until renewal.

Of course there isn't. But its worth a try (or would have been worth a try at the last renewal !!)

[centurian]

I am not confusing the two. I feel contractually entitled to charge the client travel time if I (travel to) work at their premises rather than mine.

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here.

Are you saying that you are contractually entitled to charge - that it is specifically mentioned in your contract. In which case, by all means, go ahead and claim for it.

Or are you merely stating what you believe should be the case.

In short, what you think/believe/feel is totally irrelevant. All that matters is what is in your contract.

If it isn't mentioned in your contract, you can still ask ClientCo to pay, but they would be contractually entitled to tell you where to go.


Regardless of the contract, I'm not convinced you even have a moral case. If I hire a plumber, I would generally pay by the hour that he works at my premises. If he has to travel some distance, that's his problem, not mine.

He is quite free to quote an hourly work rate to take into account any travelling time. If he wanted to charge extra for travelling I would tell him where to go - unless his hourly rate was particularly low.

Regardless of any of the above, you can always ask them to pay and state your case...

[opc]

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here.

Are you saying that you are contractually entitled to charge - that it is specifically mentioned in your contract. In which case, by all means, go ahead and claim for it.

Or are you merely stating what you believe should be the case.

In short, what you think/believe/feel is totally irrelevant. All that matters is what is in your contract.

If it isn't mentioned in your contract, you can still ask ClientCo to pay, but they would be contractually entitled to tell you where to go.


Regardless of the contract, I'm not convinced you even have a moral case. If I hire a plumber, I would generally pay by the hour that he works at my premises. If he has to travel some distance, that's his problem, not mine.

He is quite free to quote an hourly work rate to take into account any travelling time. If he wanted to charge extra for travelling I would tell him where to go - unless his hourly rate was particularly low.

Regardless of any of the above, you can always ask them to pay and state your case...

I am saying I believe I am contractually if not morally entitled to charge. I am quite able to carry out most of my work from my own office. If I have to go to the clients premises to attend meetings with their personnel, why would I not charge for the time - if I was at home working instead of travelling I would be earning revenue......

Purely hypothetically if I want a mechanic to fix my car and I want him to come to my house to fix it....would I expect to pay him for travel time (that could otherwise be spent at his premises earning revenue)? If I wanted a lawyer to come with me to a legal meeting 2 hours travel away, would I expect to only pay for the hour he was in the meeting?

An interesting debate.........

[centurian]

I am saying I believe I am contractually if not morally entitled to charge. I am quite able to carry out most of my work from my own office. If I have to go to the clients premises to attend meetings with their personnel, why would I not charge for the time - if I was at home working instead of travelling I would be earning revenue......

Purely hypothetically if I want a mechanic to fix my car and I want him to come to my house to fix it....would I expect to pay him for travel time (that could otherwise be spent at his premises earning revenue)? If I wanted a lawyer to come with me to a legal meeting 2 hours travel away, would I expect to only pay for the hour he was in the meeting?

An interesting debate.........

Okay, then there is a difference between yourself and most contractors. When a contractor usually states travel between "my office" and "client site", they generally mean every single day.

In your examples, I think there is a distinction between trades which have their own standard premises who occasionally go onsite (mechanics, lawyers etc.) and those who are almost always onsite (plumbers, builders etc.). Those who are normally onsite would be expected to build their travelling time into their cost. The vast majority of contractors fit into the second category, but you seem to be indicating you are in the first.

But it changes very little contractually. ClientCo could simply argue that while you are travelling, you are not able to do any productive work and therefore they are not going to pay for it, unless it is specifically stated in the contract.

They could also argue that occasional onsite visits are simply part of the overall service you provide and if you feel that strongly about it, then decline the next renewal.

To sum it all up, there is no legal obligation for them to pay you for this time, nor is there an overriding industry precedent.

But you can always ask and see what they say...

HTH