BN66 - the road to Judicial Review

[DaveB]

KiwiGuy has the PM - top man

Confirms my suspicion that everyone should be very careful what they post on here. And that does not just apply to the bn66 thread.

Everyone should be carefull what they post on the net, wherever they post it, same goes for email.

You are not anonymous, even if you think you are. Logs are generated, trails of information are left behind you. If the powers that be want to find out who you are they will. When push comes to shove forum admins, ISP's and telco's, not just here but anywhere else, will protect their business and not you. One disgruntled forum member is a lot less hassle to deal with than police, lawyers and court cases. Protecting your identity is not what they are here for and is not in their job description, thats why there is a disclaimer on the front page.

What you post is your responsibility, not theirs. If you are not prepared to stand up and take that responsibility then dont post in the first place and dont think you can hide behind anonymity on the net, you can't and you arn't.

[KiwiGuy]

KiwiGuy has the PM - top man

Confirms my suspicion that everyone should be very careful what they post on here. And that does not just apply to the bn66 thread.

errrrmmmm i dont have any PM (personal message)....im lost? only stuff i have is in regards to Ed Davey?

[administrator]

KiwiGuy has the PM - top man

Confirms my suspicion that everyone should be very careful what they post on here. And that does not just apply to the bn66 thread.

My last post here on this subject. I have posted a full reply here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/light...our-reply.html

[administrator]

errrrmmmm i dont have any PM (personal message)....im lost? only stuff i have is in regards to Ed Davey?

Definitely my last post now... As indicated in the thread I link to above I know I will have the PM in an email backup at home as I get email alerts to PMs and all the users I messaged about the police replied and I am sure the reply will contain my original message. Let's leave the BN66 thread alone and continue the discussion in the thread linked above if anyone wants to. Have a good weekend all.

Forgot to say, thanks also for the various messages of support. It is a lot of work maintaining this place and dealing with the libel accusations, troublesome users, police etc. While we (myself, mods and the CUK team) happily take credit for this, DonkeyRhubarb and Brillo also should be given big thanks for their pushing of this cause and their work to bring it all together. Credit where it is due.

[KiwiGuy]

Definitely my last post now... As indicated in the thread I link to above I know I will have the PM in an email backup at home as I get email alerts to PMs and all the users I messaged about the police replied and I am sure the reply will contain my original message. Let's leave the BN66 thread alone and continue the discussion in the thread linked above if anyone wants to. Have a good weekend all.

Forgot to say, thanks also for the various messages of support. It is a lot of work maintaining this place and dealing with the libel accusations, troublesome users, police etc. While we (myself, mods and the CUK team) happily take credit for this, DonkeyRhubarb and Brillo also should be given big thanks for their pushing of this cause and their work to bring it all together. Credit where it is due.

i agree with everyone, you have been doing a great job

....sorry i cant remember any PM about calling a police officer or anything, might just be mistaken identity in this case....

[SantaClaus]

I agree with everyone too. Let's get on with the job of crushing HMRC!

Have a good weekend all.

[NickFitz]

Hence the need for a private forum where every member is certified as bona fide.

That's impossible - at least, if you're thinking of using the Internet for it. Even a VPN wouldn't be secure from moles and spies. Snailmail can be intercepted, and phones can be tapped.

The only sensible thing is for people not to disclose sensitive information that could be used against them, except possibly in face-to-face conversation with trusted individuals in a privileged environment such as a solicitor's office (in the course of consulting with the solicitor, as the office itself isn't privileged).

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

To Judicial Review and Beyond!

To quote a line from a certain film.

Folks, I have read the various posts over the last couple of days since the initial JR phase ended, and I make these observations:

DR rightly set up this thread aptly named "BN66 Road to Judicial Review". Well the review has happened but it has not been concluded. We are still in the review. I think there are those who think we have come to the end of this road (or are nearing it) and hence the diverse routes that some posts are taking. We are not at the end of this particular road yet. Therefore, I think we all owe it to those who have put so much into this, not least DR, and the Judge at the JR to stay focussed on the forum subject matter.

There are always risks of an open forum being called into question, abused, misrepresented or taken advantage of. It's called Democracy. I for one, and I am sure many, many others have found this forum a rallying point to counter the worries that have plagued so many over so many years. To know you are not alone, a David facing Goliath is a small but relevant comfort. It is understandable that there will be outpourings of emotion against those who many view as the avatars of your life and it is understandable that from time to time, these feelings vent themselves to where they can be heard since during the last few years, it would seem that such pleas fell on deaf ears. Nonetheless, and for respect to those who provide this forum, to DR for carrying the momentum forward and those many who have made such valuable and balanced contributions, may we speak softly and carry a big stick. This forum has been a lifeline. The issue is more pronounced than IR35. The impact of what happens next more far reaching, not just for those affected but for those who are yet to feel the force of retrospection, gone unchallenged and without Democracy having its day.

HMRC is Her Majesties Revenue & Customs. HMT is Her Majesties Treasury. Civil Servants are just that - servants. The only master to all of them is Her Majesty, the Monarch. And those who presume by default that they either hold a higher office or right to authority than the Monarch herself or have in some way assumed such authority by default, or past Acts of Parliament, should consider this:

MP's take an Oath of Allegiance to the Monarch on entering Parliament. The Monarch gives Royal Assent to all laws passed by the Executive (or may not under law if she so chooses). Parliament is the Executive, not the Government, but it is not the defining singular authority in this country. That is why we have a Judiciary and a Sovereign. In reference to the Parliament Act of 1911 those who make the laws must stand up to be counted when questioned by the Judiciary, or by way of the Monarch being the protector of her people, the people themselves. This is what our forefarthers fought and died for. This is what Democracy is supposed to support. This is why we are here, right now. That is why the Felony & Treason Act of 1848 still send shivers down the spine of some in positions of "authority". That is why any suggestion of misleading Parliament carries such weight.

We are not some faceless group of radicals hell bent on disorder, or the downfall of democracy. We are not in some way and via subterfuge, undermining authority, seeking to take that which is not rightfully and legally ours. We do not countenance financial dealings at the dark end of the street, nor do we hide from our duty to make known how we propose to arrange our affairs. Indeed, those impacted by BN66 do pay tax and it is fair based on the law as it was known to be by those implicated on both sides of the fence.

There are those who take from society more than they contribute. We are not those people. If fair and proportionate is at the heart of this then what say those who claim against us when comparing the work, yes work, we do every day to contribute to this nation to those who make a living from living off the State or via prison become part of a shadow state? We support our families, we pay taxes, we pay mortgages, we pay bills, we support the economy at large and we never hid from those who countenance against us what monies we received. We never lied, we never hid. We always stated our position and were never acted against. What of Democracy if such discrimination is accepted or juxtoposition of standards be allowed to flourish? What does this say to our children and their children?

We know that as a public forum, in a democracy, there is always the chance and opportunity to say that which we don't mean which is understandable given the gravitas of the situation. There is, as a democracy the opportunity for some to post here and be negative to the case at hand. That is their right and we should respect that. And once they have spoken, should go on their way. There are some who may post of recent who are travelling a different road to ours and that both roads briefly cross. For that person, I wish you well on your travels, but your road is not ours and you must travel yours alone separate from this one, so be on your way. They are not one of the same and never will be.

And so, after all of this and upon reflection of what has gone before and what still may lie ahead, I offer this:

No journey, no matter how long or painful to suffer, even 8 years, is worth travelling if at the moment you turn into your road and think "I'm home", you lose focus and drive into the little boy or girl who chased their ball into the street. BN66 is our home and we want to rebuild it. Eagerness to get there should not detract from the patience and due diligence to see that this re-building is done right and democratically for the first time by those who care on both sides of the fence - "fairly and proportionately" to quote someone...

Here endeth the Lesson.

[Toocan]

To quote a line from a certain film.

Folks, I have read the various posts over the last couple of days since the initial JR phase ended, and I make these observations...
.
.
...Eagerness to get there should not detract from the patience and due diligence to see that this re-building is done right and democratically- "fairly and proportionately" to quote someone...

Since s.58 FA 2008 was announced we have seen documents that demonstrate an egregious example of the abuse of power. This is not a minor stretching of the rules that HMRC/HMT have been guilty of, but rather a wilful deception and a campaign of what I can only describe as dishonesty and bullying.

If I may put the above quote another way, We Want Our Democracy Back!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

To quote a line from a certain film.

Folks, I have read the various posts over the last couple of days since the initial JR phase ended, and I make these observations:

DR rightly set up this thread aptly named "BN66 Road to Judicial Review". Well the review has happened but it has not been concluded. We are still in the review. I think there are those who think we have come to the end of this road (or are nearing it) and hence the diverse routes that some posts are taking. We are not at the end of this particular road yet. Therefore, I think we all owe it to those who have put so much into this, not least DR, and the Judge at the JR to stay focussed on the forum subject matter.

There are always risks of an open forum being called into question, abused, misrepresented or taken advantage of. It's called Democracy. I for one, and I am sure many, many others have found this forum a rallying point to counter the worries that have plagued so many over so many years. To know you are not alone, a David facing Goliath is a small but relevant comfort. It is understandable that there will be outpourings of emotion against those who many view as the avatars of your life and it is understandable that from time to time, these feelings vent themselves to where they can be heard since during the last few years, it would seem that such pleas fell on deaf ears. Nonetheless, and for respect to those who provide this forum, to DR for carrying the momentum forward and those many who have made such valuable and balanced contributions, may we speak softly and carry a big stick. This forum has been a lifeline. The issue is more pronounced than IR35. The impact of what happens next more far reaching, not just for those affected but for those who are yet to feel the force of retrospection, gone unchallenged and without Democracy having its day.

HMRC is Her Majesties Revenue & Customs. HMT is Her Majesties Treasury. Civil Servants are just that - servants. The only master to all of them is Her Majesty, the Monarch. And those who presume by default that they either hold a higher office or right to authority than the Monarch herself or have in some way assumed such authority by default, or past Acts of Parliament, should consider this:

MP's take an Oath of Allegiance to the Monarch on entering Parliament. The Monarch gives Royal Assent to all laws passed by the Executive (or may not under law if she so chooses). Parliament is the Executive, not the Government, but it is not the defining singular authority in this country. That is why we have a Judiciary and a Sovereign. In reference to the Parliament Act of 1911 those who make the laws must stand up to be counted when questioned by the Judiciary, or by way of the Monarch being the protector of her people, the people themselves. This is what our forefarthers fought and died for. This is what Democracy is supposed to support. This is why we are here, right now. That is why the Felony & Treason Act of 1848 still send shivers down the spine of some in positions of "authority". That is why any suggestion of misleading Parliament carries such weight.

We are not some faceless group of radicals hell bent on disorder, or the downfall of democracy. We are not in some way and via subterfuge, undermining authority, seeking to take that which is not rightfully and legally ours. We do not countenance financial dealings at the dark end of the street, nor do we hide from our duty to make known how we propose to arrange our affairs. Indeed, those impacted by BN66 do pay tax and it is fair based on the law as it was known to be by those implicated on both sides of the fence.

There are those who take from society more than they contribute. We are not those people. If fair and proportionate is at the heart of this then what say those who claim against us when comparing the work, yes work, we do every day to contribute to this nation to those who make a living from living off the State or via prison become part of a shadow state? We support our families, we pay taxes, we pay mortgages, we pay bills, we support the economy at large and we never hid from those who countenance against us what monies we received. We never lied, we never hid. We always stated our position and were never acted against. What of Democracy if such discrimination is accepted or juxtoposition of standards be allowed to flourish? What does this say to our children and their children?

We know that as a public forum, in a democracy, there is always the chance and opportunity to say that which we don't mean which is understandable given the gravitas of the situation. There is, as a democracy the opportunity for some to post here and be negative to the case at hand. That is their right and we should respect that. And once they have spoken, should go on their way. There are some who may post of recent who are travelling a different road to ours and that both roads briefly cross. For that person, I wish you well on your travels, but your road is not ours and you must travel yours alone separate from this one, so be on your way. They are not one of the same and never will be.

And so, after all of this and upon reflection of what has gone before and what still may lie ahead, I offer this:

No journey, no matter how long or painful to suffer, even 8 years, is worth travelling if at the moment you turn into your road and think "I'm home", you lose focus and drive into the little boy or girl who chased their ball into the street. BN66 is our home and we want to rebuild it. Eagerness to get there should not detract from the patience and due diligence to see that this re-building is done right and democratically for the first time by those who care on both sides of the fence - "fairly and proportionately" to quote someone...

Here endeth the Lesson.

Another outstanding post.