BN66 - the road to Judicial Review

[SantaClaus]

Looks like we're up tomorrow. (Huitson is us; Shiner is PwC).

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/list_admin.htm

COURT 63
Before MR JUSTICE SIMON
Tuesday 17 November, 2009
At half past 10

FOR MENTION
CO/11073/2008 The Queen on the application of Shiner v Commissioners Of Her Majestys Revenue And Customs

FOR MENTION
CO/10012/2008 The Queen on the application of Huitson v HM Revenue & Customs

Assuming this is the hearing for requesting evidence rather than the real hearing that was scheduled Jan 19th?

[Lazylobster]

Will MR JUSTICE SIMON also be dealing with the case next year ? Was he the chap who granted the JR in the first instance, or ?

LL

[TheGadgetMan]

Looks like we're up tomorrow. (Huitson is us; Shiner is PwC).

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/list_admin.htm

COURT 63
Before MR JUSTICE SIMON
Tuesday 17 November, 2009
At half past 10

FOR MENTION
CO/11073/2008 The Queen on the application of Shiner v Commissioners Of Her Majestys Revenue And Customs

FOR MENTION
CO/10012/2008 The Queen on the application of Huitson v HM Revenue & Customs

PS. this is just a "pre-trial" hearing, not the actual JR

DR, just to be clear, what do we expect to come out of the 'pre-trial' hearing tomorrow...?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Will MR JUSTICE SIMON also be dealing with the case next year ? Was he the chap who granted the JR in the first instance, or ?

LL

He wasn't the Judge who granted the JR.

As for whether he will hear the actual Judicial Review on Jan 19th, I don't know but I will try and find out.

Also, there could be more than one Judge sitting for the JR.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

DR, just to be clear, what do we expect to come out of the 'pre-trial' hearing tomorrow...?

From what I've been told, the Judge will set a timetable with deadlines for providing evidence.

This will put an end to HMRC's game of stonewalling.

Hopefully, we will also get confirmation that Jan 19th is a firm date.

[Emigre]

From what I've been told, the Judge will set a timetable with deadlines for providing evidence.

This will put an end to HMRC's game of stonewalling.

Hopefully, we will also get confirmation that Jan 19th is a firm date.

DR. I'm going to try and attend the Hearing tomorrow to hear first hand what information is being requested and what HMRCs reasons are, this time, for not wanting to provide.

I notice that Shiner is up against the Commissioners of HMRC, while Huitson faces the whole of HMRC. Is this distinction down to the technicality of late application by PwC on behalf of Shiner or is there something more sinister?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

DR. I'm going to try and attend the Hearing tomorrow to hear first hand what information is being requested and what HMRCs reasons are, this time, for not wanting to provide.

I notice that Shiner is up against the Commissioners of HMRC, while Huitson faces the whole of HMRC. Is this distinction down to the technicality of late application by PwC on behalf of Shiner or is there something more sinister?

Excellent.

Regarding "Commissioners" as opposed to "HMRC", the court listing office made the same reference in the oral hearings.

Montpelier Oral hearing
http://forums.contractoruk.com/869627-post20.html

PwC Oral hearing
http://forums.contractoruk.com/858838-post3042.html

I suspect this may not be significant.

[ROBIN REDBREAST]

HMRC harassment againt

We eagerly await the news of tomorrows meeting...

I have a potential liability to the tune of £170K if this falls through, and now to top it off HMRC are harassing me for pennies for expenses apparently claimed incorrectly for some rental properties I have...it appears legitimately trying to secure my kids future is being penalised from every angle...its a dictatorship we live in....

Time to move to a more civalised less corrupt country....any suggestions...!!?

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

Pause for thought

All,

It appears that all the protraction in this has brought about a flurry of anticipation. The hearing this week will hopefully allow both the Appelants and the Respondents (them and us) to move to ask for evidence to be considered and for the rulings for such evidence to be made upon.

Whilst the outcome of this is critical to say the least, we must not lose sight of the fact that this is not the JR and indeed is the opening bell of Round 1. Until now, there has been a public build up to the fight and now the sparring starts.

There needs to be a momentum which is not lost on any of us to keep a keen eye on this as the storm gathers pace. We need to have patience and remind ourselves that the squall is still brewing and the eye of it has yet to make landfall. We need confidence in our belief to steer a heading which is true, confidence that our transparency usurps the fog of avoidance, confidence that whilst we have navigated treacherous seas, we have mapped a course that has been known of since 1987 and whilst HMRC have stood by ever since and watched us from afar sail into the perils and reefs which they knew awaited us, thay cannot say "we didn't know, it was not our watch". It was their watch and they were asleep. Whilst they move deckchairs around the Titanic, we are preparing the lifeboats to save not just ourselves under the mantra of "contractors and self employed first" but rather to protect those that follow us from the same folly that has sought to wreck our lives in the same way that a ship lies wrecked or foundered on the hidden entrapments that were known to HMRC. BN66 was an iceberg carefully place mid-Pacific in the path of a ship accustomed to sailing the North Atlantic and at a time when it was known that there were not enough lifeboats to save everyone.

But this ship will not sink. Not on our watch.

[OnYourBikeGB]

All,

It appears that all the protraction in this has brought about a flurry of anticipation. The hearing this week will hopefully allow both the Appelants and the Respondents (them and us) to move to ask for evidence to be considered and for the rulings for such evidence to be made upon.

Whilst the outcome of this is critical to say the least, we must not lose sight of the fact that this is not the JR and indeed is the opening bell of Round 1. Until now, there has been a public build up to the fight and now the sparring starts.

There needs to be a momentum which is not lost on any of us to keep a keen eye on this as the storm gathers pace. We need to have patience and remind ourselves that the squall is still brewing and the eye of it has yet to make landfall. We need confidence in our belief to steer a heading which is true, confidence that our transparency usurps the fog of avoidance, confidence that whilst we have navigated treacherous seas, we have mapped a course that has been known of since 1987 and whilst HMRC have stood by ever since and watched us from afar sail into the perils and reefs which they knew awaited us, thay cannot say "we didn't know, it was not our watch". It was their watch and they were asleep. Whilst they move deckchairs around the Titanic, we are preparing the lifeboats to save not just ourselves under the mantra of "contractors and self employed first" but rather to protect those that follow us from the same folly that has sought to wreck our lives in the same way that a ship lies wrecked or foundered on the hidden entrapments that were known to HMRC. BN66 was an iceberg carefully place mid-Pacific in the path of a ship accustomed to sailing the North Atlantic and at a time when it was known that there were not enough lifeboats to save everyone.

But this ship will not sink. Not on our watch.

To further the nautical theme, I hope we blow them out of the f#cking water.