CEST Outcome Sufficient as SDS?

[l35kee]

Where is the statement in an email confirming anything?

Their email says "this is an outside IR35 engagement, find attached the CEST determination with justification for this determination". And the CEST document says "Off-payroll working rules (IR35) do not apply" with the justification in the "Why you are getting this result" section.

Again, and we've explained this to you numerous times now, It's a STATEMENT. THey have to provide one. You've posted above that it declares deemed employement status. So lets sum this up for you again. A STATEMENT that DECLARES STATUS. Does an email confirming CEST give you that? No.

This is the bit I'm struggling with I guess, it appears they have done this? Unless it's to do with the legal definition of a statement that I may not understand..?

[northernladuk]

"this is an outside IR35 engagement,

And there is your statement so you are covered. Personally I would have wanted a bit more fluff around it mentioning that this is the official SDS. My current one covers it in a whole paragraph stating it's the SDS and mentioning the legislation. This SDS for this role is x in accordance with Y legislation'. It mentions reaonable care and I believe it also mentions the dispute process <for a giggle>so it's absolutely clear but if it did go south I think it's reasonable to say that's a statement of the role and you are covered.

https://sjdaccountancy.com/resources...ion-statement/

According to government guidance, an SDS needs to meet three requirements:

1. It must clearly state the IR35 status of the assignment, clearly stating if the end-client believes your engagement falls inside or outside the scope of IR35
2. The reasons they have arrived at this decision, such as levels of Control, Mutuality of Obligation and the requirement for Personal Service
3. The end hirer must have taken reasonable care when arriving at their determination

Sounds like your email covers these in a roundabout way but a nice laid out document covering these explicitly wouldn't be a bad thing.

And not to bang on about it, but you filling it in. It sounds like the bottom three bullet points have been paid lipservice by you filling it in and them having a casual glance at it. That's not reasonable care in my book but maybe I'm being overly pedantic.

What counts as ‘reasonable care’?


Up until recently reasonable care was open to interpretation and had no clear definition, but having received criticism from industry experts, the government detailed ways it can be shown by end-clients.

This includes:

• Seeking the advice of a qualified professional advisor
• Reassessing the engagement if there are changes to a worker’s contract or working practices
• Accurately completing HMRC’s CEST tool
• Applying HMRC guidance

[l35kee]

Sounds like your email covers these in a roundabout way but a nice laid out document covering these explicitly wouldn't be a bad thing.

Yeah, I've requested a more formal document laid out properly and explicitly. Thanks all ?

[eek]

One problem with SDS determinations is that the BEIS / the Government never designed a document for companies to use

[Bodger]

To give you an example, the statement I received is almost a copy paste from the CEST, with a statement, reasons listed in CEST and acknowledgement from client and contractor. All bundled up in nice headed paper. Looks something like this:

We believe this engagement falls Outside IR35 and the contractor is therefore Self-
Employed for tax purposes, due to the following reasons:

About the contract

Blah blah reason 1

Personal Service

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

End client control

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

Part and Parcel & Business on Own Account

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

Mutuality of Obligation (MOO)

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2

Acknowledgement

The following people have been asked to acknowledge this document:
Name: Contractor
Status: Pending
Role: LTD Director

Name: Client Contact
Status: Pending
Role: Client Director of Services

[Lance]

To give you an example, the statement I received is almost a copy paste from the CEST, with a statement, reasons listed in CEST and acknowledgement from client and contractor. All bundled up in nice headed paper. Looks something like this:

We believe this engagement falls Outside IR35 and the contractor is therefore Self-
Employed for tax purposes, due to the following reasons:

About the contract

Blah blah reason 1

Personal Service

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

End client control

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

Part and Parcel & Business on Own Account

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2
Blah blah reason 3

Mutuality of Obligation (MOO)

Blah blah reason 1
Blah blah reason 2

Acknowledgement

The following people have been asked to acknowledge this document:
Name: Contractor
Status: Pending
Role: LTD Director

Name: Client Contact
Status: Pending
Role: Client Director of Services

is that from the agency? Reads like it.

As long as it has a genuine responsible person at the client accepting it (not status pending) I'd be happy with that as an SDS.
As others have said there is no formal template, and IMO in a court a judge would see the intent of this as providing that SDS.