No To Retro Tax - Ongoing battle against S58 FA2008

[TalkingCheese]

Update

Please do not contact me for more information. Please wait for the next newsletter.

NTRT and our advisors CCW met with HMRC yesterday. This was to get HMRC's response to the technical analysis CCW sent them on 12th Feb.

HMRC only raised one objection to TAA, which was dealt with in the Anne Redston QC opinion. However it's a very serious matter that warrants us going back to Anne and asking her to consider the point again.

We hope to have her view on this in the next 10 days when we will update members.

My own personal perspective

It seems to me that HMRC have fallen back on their usual tactic of intimidation and bullying when they can't get their own way. They want to scare us into dropping TAA because that's all they have.

The stakes are very high, especially for the HMRC officers in charge. If they can't win, they will fight dirty.

Interesting! I guess Anne won't go back on her original view. Is it worth getting another opinion?

[OnYourBikeGB]

Update

Please do not contact me for more information. Please wait for the next newsletter.

NTRT and our advisors CCW met with HMRC yesterday. This was to get HMRC's response to the technical analysis CCW sent them on 12th Feb.

HMRC only raised one objection to TAA, which was dealt with in the Anne Redston QC opinion. However it's a very serious matter that warrants us going back to Anne and asking her to consider the point again.

We hope to have her view on this in the next 10 days when we will update members.

My own personal perspective

It seems to me that HMRC have fallen back on their usual tactic of intimidation and bullying when they can't get their own way. They want to scare us into dropping TAA because that's all they have.

The stakes are very high, especially for the HMRC officers in charge. If they can't win, they will fight dirty.

Good to know they might be crapping themselves for a change, we have nothing to lose. Good luck to all on the NTRT team as we move into what appears to be a critical phase.

[lucozade]

Update

Please do not contact me for more information. Please wait for the next newsletter.

NTRT and our advisors CCW met with HMRC yesterday. This was to get HMRC's response to the technical analysis CCW sent them on 12th Feb.

HMRC only raised one objection to TAA, which was dealt with in the Anne Redston QC opinion. However it's a very serious matter that warrants us going back to Anne and asking her to consider the point again.

We hope to have her view on this in the next 10 days when we will update members.

My own personal perspective

It seems to me that HMRC have fallen back on their usual tactic of intimidation and bullying when they can't get their own way. They want to scare us into dropping TAA because that's all they have.

The stakes are very high, especially for the HMRC officers in charge. If they can't win, they will fight dirty.

Thanks once again DR.

Top work by all those involved.

[BrilloPad]

Update

Please do not contact me for more information. Please wait for the next newsletter.

NTRT and our advisors CCW met with HMRC yesterday. This was to get HMRC's response to the technical analysis CCW sent them on 12th Feb.

HMRC only raised one objection to TAA, which was dealt with in the Anne Redston QC opinion. However it's a very serious matter that warrants us going back to Anne and asking her to consider the point again.

We hope to have her view on this in the next 10 days when we will update members.

My own personal perspective

It seems to me that HMRC have fallen back on their usual tactic of intimidation and bullying when they can't get their own way. They want to scare us into dropping TAA because that's all they have.

The stakes are very high, especially for the HMRC officers in charge. If they can't win, they will fight dirty.

Many thanks

I bet there are hundreds like me who really really appreciate the update. Please don't say anythuing unless you are sure it is safe - but saying what you can makes a big difference.

But try to keep posting - only 19 posts to 5000 and you get title "GodLike" and so are eligible for a custom title! I think "RetroUnLike"....

[eek]

Once you have paid the APN will it ever be returned ?

In theory yes as an APN is only supposed to determine where the tax under dispute is held...

[webberg]

In theory yes as an APN is only supposed to determine where the tax under dispute is held...

And in law "yes".

The APN is a payment on account.

If your final liability is less than the tax you've paid, including the APN, then you get the difference back.

What is less clear is the penalty position.

Assume you have an APN for £100 and you don't pay it until after the 11 months is up (e.g. awaiting the result of the JR) and then pay it along with a penalty of £15.

Some time later your liability is agreed at say £20.

You get £80 returned.

Question (for HMRC), does the penalty reduce:

a. at all

b. to 15% of £20

c. to zero as the "asserted advantage" never existed

d. starts from a later date because of the JR

Don't know is the present answer.

[the great escape]

DR's 'Update'....

Intimidation, bullying, fighting dirty. I wonder what that constitutes in their eyes. Sounds like something reminiscent of the mob. Screw you professionally, fine-tooth comb through your individual finances, lop your pet's head off and put it in the post. It's all getting a bit tasty in the HM ring.

[Slobbo]

That's exactly the point I was making earlier. There must be some kind of stamp on the files showing "create date" and "modify date". Possibly even a document management system with a history on each file.

I haven't worked in HMRC so I don't know what systems they have in place but I would have thought they would have to have a minimum amount of data handling of this nature.

I do computer forensics. You can build a story of a persons activity quite easily. If you can get the pc that is or the data from the server. Your every activity is recorded in many places.

[centurian]

What is less clear is the penalty position.

Assume you have an APN for £100 and you don't pay it until after the 11 months is up (e.g. awaiting the result of the JR) and then pay it along with a penalty of £15.

Some time later your liability is agreed at say £20.

You get £80 returned.

Question (for HMRC), does the penalty reduce:

a. at all

b. to 15% of £20

c. to zero as the "asserted advantage" never existed

d. starts from a later date because of the JR

Don't know is the present answer.

Given the indication that penalties will not be refunded, even if you win your case (i.e. the final liability is reduced to zero), then I cannot see how a penalty will be partially refunded if the final liability > 0 - you could be better off losing with a small liability than winning.

Of course, this assumes that penalties will not be refunded, which is only an indication at this stage.

[eek]

Given the indication that penalties will not be refunded, even if you win your case (i.e. the final liability is reduced to zero), then I cannot see how a penalty will be partially refunded if the final liability > 0 - you could be better off losing with a small liability than winning.

Of course, this assumes that penalties will not be refunded, which is only an indication at this stage.

I can see APN penalties being another court case once you lot win....*

This is based on the fact that the God of Irony will want its final say and those penalties are probably still enough to sadly bankrupt some of your members..