List of Umbrellas

**eek** · 21 August 2023, 15:28

Originally posted by rootsnall View Post

There doesn't seem to be a sticky with a list of umbrellas !? Or am I being thick. I have spoken to Clarity, Workwell and Contractor Umbrella so far, all are a similar cost. I just got lured back after a a couple of years of idleness and got excited by an 'outside IR35' direct contract and the thought of setting up a Ltd, but it appears the same old can of worms.

There is little point having a list of umbrellas when 9 times out of 10 the agency presents you with a list that you have to choose from.

As for your list - Clarity is who we now recommend after Contractor Umbrella moved office and made Lucy and co redundant.
Workwell well

- I guess if it's the only option and the others are worse...

Originally posted by rootsnall View Post

I've read a few stickys on it, what happened to the development that the end client would be liable if you got nabbed.

HMRC told agencies and end clients that the fix was to reclaim the money from the worker and repay them after deducting the tax owed.

**rootsnall** · 21 August 2023, 15:37

Originally posted by eek View Post

There is little point having a list of umbrellas when 9 times out of 10 the agency presents you with a list that you have to choose from.

At the moment it is 'Direct' but suspect I may get directed to a list as it's a biggish end client

**Ketto** · 22 August 2023, 09:31

Saw on a previous thread that HMRC are apparently advising end clients to get money back from contractors they have previously deemed to be outside IR35 and then apply inside IR35 taxes if HMRC disagree with the original outside determination.

What a can of worms that would be, anyone aware of any real life examples of that happening? I don't even know how it could work as on a longish engagement as the contractor will have paid HMRC excessive corporation tax, dividend tax too potentially. Also they will likely have paid themselves expenses which would be disallowed if inside. Will be lots of other issues I have not thought of either. I appreciate HMRC probably don't give two hoots about how this works in practice, I just can't see how it could work as the contractor won't have the money to give back in all likelihood.

**Ketto** · 22 August 2023, 09:35

Originally posted by rootsnall View Post

There doesn't seem to be a sticky with a list of umbrellas !? Or am I being thick. I have spoken to Clarity, Workwell and Contractor Umbrella so far, all are a similar cost. I just got lured back after a a couple of years of idleness and got excited by an 'outside IR35' direct contract and the thought of setting up a Ltd, but it appears the same old can of worms. I've read a few stickys on it, what happened to the development that the end client would be liable if you got nabbed.

Umbrellas don't differ that much to be honest. Have just accepted an inside gig and and using Paystream, they have annoyed me the least in the past. Would ideally like to use Clarity but they are not on many PSLs yet.

**northernladuk** · 22 August 2023, 09:50

Originally posted by Ketto View Post

Umbrellas don't differ that much to be honest. Have just accepted an inside gig and and using Paystream, they have annoyed me the least in the past. Would ideally like to use Clarity but they are not on many PSLs yet.

Only 2 out of 7 or so didn't have them on the list so far. A few of the 5 that would take Clarity didn't have them on their initial list and I had to push a bit to use them. It transpired they'd use most FCSA approved ones but they hadn't done any diligence on Clarity so they said they would if that was my preferred choice. You've got to push back on the PSL's else they will never change. Not to the point of losing the gig but be insistant and some of them will fold.

**ladymuck** · 22 August 2023, 09:52

Originally posted by Ketto View Post

Umbrellas don't differ that much to be honest. Have just accepted an inside gig and and using Paystream, they have annoyed me the least in the past. Would ideally like to use Clarity but they are not on many PSLs yet.

It's always worth asking the agency if they will accept a different FCSA accredited umbrella. I have had a number of conversations with agencies of late where they have said that they will consider a different umbrella.

**rootsnall** · 23 August 2023, 09:47

I'll be paying myself minimum wage ( ie. 'Outside' is not what I hoped it was ) and the rest into a SIPP and an option is to open a Ltd and use the same payment structure that I would using an umbrella. The cost per annum will be pretty similar on the quotes I have got so far. More hassle I know but it would take away the risk ( however slim ) of an umbrella going pop. Is there some HMRC risk that I am unaware of if I went down this route !?!

**eek** · 23 August 2023, 10:58

Originally posted by rootsnall View Post

I'll be paying myself minimum wage ( ie. 'Outside' is not what I hoped it was ) and the rest into a SIPP and an option is to open a Ltd and use the same payment structure that I would using an umbrella. The cost per annum will be pretty similar on the quotes I have got so far. More hassle I know but it would take away the risk ( however slim ) of an umbrella going pop. Is there some HMRC risk that I am unaware of if I went down this route !?!

The obvious one of HMRC deciding that the contract isn't outside IR35 or you using an accountancy firm that falls under HMRC's Managed Service Companies eyes.

If you plan is what you are suggesting Clarity doesn't do anything stupid like advancing payments for agencies so they aren't going to go belly up.

And Yep outside usually means we are going to pay you way less than you were hoping for / expecting - it's a reason why I took this inside contract.

**rootsnall** · 23 August 2023, 11:57

Originally posted by eek View Post

The obvious one of HMRC deciding that the contract isn't outside IR35 or you using an accountancy firm that falls under HMRC's Managed Service Companies eyes.

If you plan is what you are suggesting Clarity doesn't do anything stupid like advancing payments for agencies so they aren't going to go belly up.

And Yep outside usually means we are going to pay you way less than you were hoping for / expecting - it's a reason why I took this inside contract.

It wouldn't matter if I'm inside, that is my 2 year old understanding of things but !? I have used an umbrella previously to pay min wage and the rest into a SIPP, I was only part time so didn't go over £40K a year, and now £60K allowed into the SIPP. You are I believe/hope getting paid ( and taxed ) like any employee and are effectively deeming yourself inside. I'll maybe speak to some accountants.

I'll likely use an umbrella but it's the slightly edgy wait for the first SIPP payment to land, which if my payment terms aren't great could be 3 months in, but I'm guessing more likely 2 months.

List of Umbrellas