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Umbrella travel expenses - one-off trip near client site for 100% wfh contract

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    Umbrella travel expenses - one-off trip near client site for 100% wfh contract

    Hi all, despite research I haven't been able to work out the definitive answer to this one. Basic question is can I, an umbrella contractor on an exclusively work from home contract, claim travelling expenses from my umbrella company *and get tax relief on them* if I'm making a genuinely one-off visit to a location close to the end client's head office?

    Background:
    I have been contracted to my current client via an umbrella company since April 2021. For that entire time I have been on an exclusively work from home contract.

    Set-up is:

    * Client's head office: NotLondon, a 1.5 hour drive from my home.
    * My hiring manager, who signs my timesheets, is based in Boston, US. I work with her daily. She is 'properly' my hiring manager, not some person who doesn't know me who signs my timesheets (as sometimes happens).
    * I am on a purely work from home contract and not obliged to visit the office at any time. This works well for everyone: about 25% of the people I work with are in the Head Office in NotLondon but the rest of them are all over the world and the commuting time is frankly just time wasted when I could be on Teams or phone calls with the people in different time zones. There is virtually no benefit to me attending Head Office just to work, I might be in the same place as a few people but it's then harder to collaborate with others.

    I am generally very happy with my umbrella company (Paystream, for what it's worth) - in the normal course of events they are very efficient and slick with good customer service, including on salary sacrifice pension contributions. The only times I have had issues with them have been on the two occasions I have had expenses to be paid.

    I'm only interested in claiming fully receipted expenses that the client is fully reimbursing and I generally can't be bothered sweating the small stuff. In this case I've done two separate trips to London - one in February and one in April, both for a couple of days. Both trips were to stay in a hotel and attend workshops (in the hotel) with representatives from multiple companies including client, their consultants and external lawyers and third parties. People flying in from around the world, that kind of thing.

    The process to claim them is onerous - I contract via Hays so there are 2 steps. Whereas for timesheets it's a very slick app-based process which is also easy for my hiring manager to approve, for expenses it's a lot more manual. To get the end client to pay Hays I have to fill in a manual spreadsheet, email that plus soft copy receipts to end client to get hiring manager's approval, then forward the whole lot to Hays via email. That's stage 1 - annoying but Hays always efficient at processing it and their bit works fine. Then for me to get paid the expenses by Paystream I have to submit same stuff again totally independently via the Paystream online expenses portal - and they (eventually) pay me. But there have been delays both times and despite timely submissions, it'd ended up messed up. Paystream have had the employment income through in a timely fashion from Hays and then paid it in my weekly payslip from Paystream, but because Paystream haven't processed the expenses claim fully on their end it ends up being subject to tax in that week. Only later when I've sorted out Paystream (there have been multiple phone calls each time and their expenses team isn't available by phone so it's always translated through the intermediary of their nice customer services people who clearly understand nothing about the issues around expenses) and they've finally approved the expenses have they then given me the tax relief, in a later week. By that time it's being given against some of my consultancy income for that week. It's all come out in the wash but it does mean I've had to check everything carefully.

    On each occasion I claimed for:
    *parking at the station;
    *train fare (expensive, from me to London - over £150);
    *2 nights in a London hotel.
    * a couple of meals (others were provided in workshops)

    I didn't bother claiming for any mileage to the station as I basically couldn't be bothered given the annoying process. Simple expenses claims.

    Some delays were just processing backlogs or similar but there also seems to be some hangup about postcodes. I've been with them over a year and I've claimed 2 lots of expenses that entire time, it's not like I'm trying to claim for commuting costs. Their concerns seem to have been about postcode of head office in NotLondon vs the places I've visited on behalf of the client in London. I basically think it looks like they're not set up to handle 100% from home contractors.

    I've now been asked to attend, in a couple of weeks, a similar set of workshops that will take place close to the client's head office in NotLondon (some of the people attending will be flying into the country and will do these workshops but also visit the head office in the same trip, so it's convenient to have the workshops there). Bearing in mind what's happened previously, I'm nervous Paystream is only going to end up paying me net of taxes rather than giving me the appropriate tax relief.

    I must emphasise that it is genuinely the case that I work 100% from home in the normal course of events and any travel elsewhere is occasional and for a temporary purpose - workshops, usually, with specific intent to get different parties together in the same place. There's no question of this being 'commuting' on any level - I can guarantee everyone who goes to them will be getting expenses from their respective employers whether it's my client because they're permanent employees, or a different organisation because they're third parties.

    But I have a concern now about whether this is going to be different because I'm on a work from home contract. I have tried, and failed, to understand a definitive answer from the various online HMRC guidance. On one hand I can see that the hotel close to the NotLondon office is definitely not a permanent workplace but rather a temporary one, in HMRC speak. But from other research I feel that HMRC's view might be that I still can't claim expenses to travel to somewhere close to the client's office in NotLondon, because any travel close to the client's office, even when I'm on a work from home contract and it's just a one-off visit, would be classed as commuting...? I think this is where Paystream is getting tangled up.

    Any advice either way - even if it's the news I don't want to hear, I just want to know definitively! very much welcome.

    #2
    Doesn't Paystreams own Umbrella Expenses article help at all?

    https://www.paystream.co.uk/helphub/...you-can-claim/
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      I’ve now read the post a few times and I don’t see an issue beyond the fact Hays operate self billing and are crap at sending detailed remittance statements.

      and most umbrellas will treat all income received as taxable income (unless told otherwise) just to get monies out the door asap.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        Doesn't Paystreams own Umbrella Expenses article help at all?

        https://www.paystream.co.uk/helphub/...you-can-claim/
        Unfortunately not, because it is silent on the issues at hand. My regular workplace is my home, so you would think it would be clear cut. Unfortunately in practice Paystream do not appear to believe this, and from my research on HMRC's website I can to some extent see why.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by eek View Post
          I’ve now read the post a few times and I don’t see an issue beyond the fact Hays operate self billing and are crap at sending detailed remittance statements.

          and most umbrellas will treat all income received as taxable income (unless told otherwise) just to get monies out the door asap.
          On your final sentence - yes, and in most circumstances (arguably even in this one) this is good practice and what the contractor would want. As I mentioned, Paystream are generally pretty efficient.

          On your first point, I'm sorry but I don't understand. Would you mind clarifying please? From previously contracting directly through Hays I was aware that yes indeed they do operate self-billing - does this mean they'll be producing self-billing invoices to Paystream too? I may be being dense but would appreciate you explaining.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Glencky View Post

            On your final sentence - yes, and in most circumstances (arguably even in this one) this is good practice and what the contractor would want. As I mentioned, Paystream are generally pretty efficient.

            On your first point, I'm sorry but I don't understand. Would you mind clarifying please? From previously contracting directly through Hays I was aware that yes indeed they do operate self-billing - does this mean they'll be producing self-billing invoices to Paystream too? I may be being dense but would appreciate you explaining.
            Yes and I've heard multiple complaints that Hay's remittance slips aren't that helpful..
            Last edited by eek; 20 June 2022, 18:22.
            merely at clientco for the entertainment

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Glencky View Post

              Unfortunately not, because it is silent on the issues at hand. My regular workplace is my home, so you would think it would be clear cut. Unfortunately in practice Paystream do not appear to believe this, and from my research on HMRC's website I can to some extent see why.
              They should have the contract from the agent which will specifiy your agreed working location. If that's your home then it's there in black and white for them to see. If you've left your client site as place of work you are buggered.

              Either way tell them to refer to the contract.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

                They should have the contract from the agent which will specifiy your agreed working location. If that's your home then it's there in black and white for them to see. If you've left your client site as place of work you are buggered.

                Either way tell them to refer to the contract.
                Certainly in MY contract with the agent, it's a fully remote assignment (the way Hays works is you sign an overarching contract with them that lasts 2 years which has most of what we would recognise as a 'contract' within it, and then they issue an 'assignment letter' for each (what we would refer to as contract with an end client). The assignment letter is a 2 page Word doc that contains rate, location etc and in this case it's listed as client head office "address in NotLondon" but clearly marked as 'remote assignment' EDIT: with my address immediately above it END EDIT. In the past I made a big deal about this with the agent when I accidentally found out Paystream had my location listed as "client's head office in NotLondon" and Paystream confirmed they had updated their systems accordingly. Despite this, on the two occasions I've claimed expenses so far they've gone through the whole nonsense again and concluded they're happy to pay my expenses basically becuase the head office is in NotLondon and the expenses were for travel to London. Now that - for the first time in over a year - I am going to the head office in NotLondon I think they're going to refuse to offer tax relief on the expenses.

                Despite what's in my Assignment Letter and the communication from Hays... but yes, this is the battle I have to fight. You'd think it would be simple, but as we know - it's not.

                I don't have a desk or anything at the client's site because I genuinely do work from home and have no reason to go there usually. Gah!
                Last edited by Glencky; 21 June 2022, 12:00.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by eek View Post

                  Yes and I've heard multiple complaints that Hay's remittance slips aren't that helpful..
                  That's interesting - that might be relevant with some of the delays I've experienced but I don't think it speaks to the core problem we have here which is Paystream failing to recognise that my permanent workplace is my home address and consistently behaving as if it's at the client's head office despite the fact I haven't been to the client's head office the entire time I've worked through Paystream - well over a year! Until next week...

                  Out of interest, I checked back to when I contracted to same client via Hays direct (without Paystream) before the pandemic - different role, monthly international travel reimbursed by client. I had separate self-billing invoices for my time and for the expenses and the expenses ones just had one lump amount for the full total of that particular expenses claim that I had submitted via the Hays Excel form. I think any remittance advice would've just been a basic notification in the app that an invoice had been processed for me, as it always is. So if that's all Paystream is getting then it will just be one lump sum so nothing to really reconcile and I guess that could cause issues. In my case the two expense claims I've done so far have been simple with just a few items and the total would've been the same so easy match but it may well slow down their process somewhere.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    So the problem is just Paystream not wanting to step out of the ordinary and process this travel? Sounds like you need to get on the phone to them explain everything again and if the drone on the end of the phone isn't helping escalate the issue. Get the agreement in writing and then just send them that everytime they play silly buggers?
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment

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