• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Holiday Pay

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Holiday Pay

    Given that I can't access the thread but can read - I'll create a new thread to answer the questions

    Are there any pros and cons of including holiday pay into my weekly payments when using an Umbrella company? One option is to take the holiday pay later on but not sure if there is any benefit of that.

    Technically it's illegal to pay holiday pay in advance - however, we are all well paid contractors and know that we need to keep money for a rainy day so there is zero reason for us not to insist on Holiday pay being paid in advance as that weeks payment is made.

    * I'm ignoring a whole other pile of things here - but given that we should be able to manage money it's fair to say you want your money ASAP.

    I have another question on holidays. My agency has offered me x Umbrella day rates which are inclusive of holidays and the payee rates i have been offered are £150 less than the Umbrella rate but they are exclusive of holidays. Is this a normal practice ?

    Yep see my comment above - a PAYE rate means that you still need to be paid when you are on holiday so the rate will be reduced to allow the agency to pay you on the 28 days (assuming you work all year) you take off as holiday.

    A PAYE rate will be significantly less because an umbrella rate needs to reflect the following costs

    1) Employer NI at 15.05%
    2) Apprenticeship levy at 0.5%
    3) Holiday pay at a minimum of 12.07% (and it often should be more than that).
    4) the margin the umbrella is charging

    All that comes to a total of 27.62% before the margin so you can see why the PAYE rate is so much less. As to whether its better to go PAYE rather than using an umbrella the 2 factors to consider are:-

    Is the umbrella rate significantly more than 27.62% higher than the PAYE rate
    or
    Do you wish to put a lot into the pension as you could add about £6,000 into your pension if you put £40,000 a year into it using an umbrella (thanks to salary sacrifice).
    Last edited by eek; 12 May 2022, 13:54.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

    #2
    And for the complexity of Holiday Pay Chris Bryce / the FCSA has written an excellent article regarding the complexities of it at Due to the Catch 22 of umbrella contractor holiday pay, the law is an ass (contractoruk.com)

    Basically there is a problem and there is no way to fix it without breaking the law because it wasn't designed for how umbrella workers are paid.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

    Comment


      #3
      I've just spoken to ACAS about how legit it is for Umbrella companies to pay holiday pay upfront (as mine has given me the option of upfront or accrued) and they say while upfront isn't advised from a wellbeing perspective, if it is by written agreement (which it is in my contract) then it isn't illegal.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Tigs View Post
        I've just spoken to ACAS about how legit it is for Umbrella companies to pay holiday pay upfront (as mine has given me the option of upfront or accrued) and they say while upfront isn't advised from a wellbeing perspective, if it is by written agreement (which it is in my contract) then it isn't illegal.
        I would ask ACAS to check that because the more accurate answer is

        It's illegal (because of the well being aspect) but no one is going to object because the money has been paid and the method of payment is obvious - and there are employment tribunals judgments that back that up.

        Basically it comes down to a really awkward point when it comes to umbrella workers - the way a person earning £13 an hour needs to be treated and protected is very different from someone earning £700 a day.
        merely at clientco for the entertainment

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by eek View Post
          And for the complexity of Holiday Pay Chris Bryce / the FCSA has written an excellent article regarding the complexities of it at Due to the Catch 22 of umbrella contractor holiday pay, the law is an ass (contractoruk.com)

          Basically there is a problem and there is no way to fix it without breaking the law because it wasn't designed for how umbrella workers are paid.
          Yeah interesting article https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...y_law_ass.html

          Many industry "experts" been "calling out" different brollies on social so this is useful.

          Comment


            #6
            A lot of the 'experts' have a vested (commercial) interests in kicking companies who have done nothing illegal. Indeed some change their position depending on who's payroll they are on this week.
            https://uk.linkedin.com/in/andyhallett

            Comment


              #7
              What a pile of cack...

              FCSA waters down umbrella company code, settling for ‘reasonable effort’ on contractor holiday pay
              FCSA waters down umbrella company code, settling for ‘reasonable effort’ on contractor holiday pay (contractoruk.com)

              And I'm taking a guess at who that litigious member might be...

              And no, it isn't fecking good enough.
              "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
              - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by cojak View Post
                What a pile of cack...

                FCSA waters down umbrella company code, settling for ‘reasonable effort’ on contractor holiday pay
                FCSA waters down umbrella company code, settling for ‘reasonable effort’ on contractor holiday pay (contractoruk.com)

                And I'm taking a guess at who that litigious member might be...

                And no, it isn't fecking good enough.
                I will repeat my continual mantra when it comes to a lot of things.

                The issue is at the agency level.....
                merely at clientco for the entertainment

                Comment


                  #9
                  Interesting post on LinkedIn naming names Post | LinkedIn

                  Now I did know the name but I wasn't the person to leak it.....
                  merely at clientco for the entertainment

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by eek View Post
                    Interesting post on LinkedIn naming names Post | LinkedIn

                    Now I did know the name but I wasn't the person to leak it.....
                    Interesting. So Advance would rather sue the FCSA than say, "screw your old boys' membership club, no more subs from us!" but I suspect that would mean they fall off the PSL of agencies who rely on FCSA membership instead of doing their own due diligence?

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X