UmbrellaReclaim - anyone used this?

[OJD]

What test cases? The reason why I found the D South one is because an IR35 "expert" on LinkedIn referenced it as a win and I went back to doublecheck that my memory wasn't wrong (and it wasn't).

A first level tribunal doesn't set any precedent but can be used in subsequent cases for instance Mr South used 6Cats as an example (but it's a crap one because it was won by default - because it's not worth spending £1000 to defend a £628 claim).

If Umbrella Reclaim think there are similar cases I would love to see them as they really, really, really aren't any where the judgement has been published (and they usually are).

Which is exactly why (amongst other reasons) that individual claims can be lost so easily - the defendant will be able to fight it, complicate things, and make it too costly to pursue and address each argument raised.

The other test cases were cited to me but unfortunately we were on the call for ages and I only took a mental note, which is now forgotten. But suffice to say, my concerns were addressed when I spoke to them.

And as I said earlier, some of the thousands of claimants have payslips going back 20 years and the solicitors here are not on an hourly rate, so it's not that surprising it's taking time. But communication could certainly be better (which they acknowledged) and it seems like there will be progress soon. I believe the update next week-ish will outline the process for our case handlers to be allocated, amongst others.

[OJD]

A reply I got from their solicitor:

QUOTE
Regarding the Danbro case, it appears the legal team were not citing the correct legislation or backing it up with the relevant case history. However, there is a good chance if the Danbro case were to go to appeal, the decision would be overturned.

I would like to add, we have spent a lot of time and money ensuring both the employment and tax laws we are citing are accurate & we have QC opinions from both sectors. Please find below some case evidence from both holiday pay & unlawful deductions cases.

https://www.aspirepartnership.co.uk/...ibunal-outcome

https://assets.publishing.service.go...1_judgment.pdf

https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/...g_offers_hope/
UNQUOTE

[eek]

Reply I got:

QUOTE
Regarding the Danbro case, it appears the legal team were not citing the correct legislation or backing it up with the relevant case history. However, there is a good chance if the Danbro case were to go to appeal, the decision would be overturned.

I would like to add, we have spent a lot of time and money ensuring both the employment and tax laws we are citing are accurate & we have QC opinions from both sectors. Please find below some case evidence from both holiday pay & unlawful deductions cases.

https://www.aspirepartnership.co.uk/...ibunal-outcome

https://assets.publishing.service.go...1_judgment.pdf

https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/...g_offers_hope/
UNQUOTE

And we go round in circles again.

6Cats isn't a judgement it was a default win because no evidence was provided by the responder as it was cheaper to pay £800 rather than fight.

The reason why they reference Blakely in that oblige way is because it didn't go to a tribunal in the end Microsoft Word - R Blakely - 3324211-2016 - Dismissal withdrawal Judgment.doc (publishing.service.gov.uk) Heck aspire even have an article about it Blakely v On-Site Recruitment Solutions Ltd: On-Site settles in full ahead of fresh tribunal - Aspire Business Partnership (aspirepartnership.co.uk) which states no precedent set.

While I understand what they are trying to do I really don't think they have much chance of getting anything on supposedly illegal deductions if the umbrella firm provided any paperwork. But the Pimlico cases opens up the chance of reclaiming holiday pay given how lax firms were in checking it was taken..

[OJD]

A reply I got from their solicitor:

QUOTE
Regarding the Danbro case, it appears the legal team were not citing the correct legislation or backing it up with the relevant case history. However, there is a good chance if the Danbro case were to go to appeal, the decision would be overturned.

I would like to add, we have spent a lot of time and money ensuring both the employment and tax laws we are citing are accurate & we have QC opinions from both sectors. Please find below some case evidence from both holiday pay & unlawful deductions cases.

https://www.aspirepartnership.co.uk/...ibunal-outcome

https://assets.publishing.service.go...1_judgment.pdf

https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/...g_offers_hope/
UNQUOTE

And we go round in circles again.

6Cats isn't a judgement it was a default win because no evidence was provided by the responder as it was cheaper to pay £800 rather than fight.

The reason why they reference Blakely in that oblige way is because it didn't go to a tribunal in the end Microsoft Word - R Blakely - 3324211-2016 - Dismissal withdrawal Judgment.doc (publishing.service.gov.uk)

While I understand what they are trying to do I really don't think they have much chance if the umbrella firm provided any paperwork.

I think that’s some of the issues - some of us weren’t provided paperwork and even with paperwork, there’s still clear miss-selling and deception at play with the communication and coercion involved. Some of the stuff involved is very much akin to what you see with the PPI scam and even human trafficking regimes.

6Cats case being a default win doesn’t preclude the fact it may have been won regardless. And it certainly
doesn’t contradict the basis of the group claim.

Ultimately, time will tell. I went into it feeling it was perhaps wishful thinking and too good to be true that I might see a massive rebate on the deductions I was never happy about (and challenged from the start only to be met with a load of flannel and open lies), but figured it was pretty minimal risk for me to find out and would prefer to be within the first tranche of claims if there were to be any success. Particularly as the view of Umbrella Reclaim is that it will almost certainly be settled before or out of court to prevent further claims; I think they are more keen to force industry/law change to prevent further exploitation.

[Paralytic]

...we have QC opinions from both sectors.

I hope no-one is viewing that statement as an optimistic thing. Many have learned that QC opinions mean little when it comes to contractor remuneration; on the contrary, they have been used to convince people of something they otherwise would not have been convinced of. Not saying there's anything dodgy going on here, but I'd just ignore that bit of their response.

[OJD]

I have received this update:

QUOTE
Dear Client,

RE: COMPANY UPDATE

We would like to inform you of the merger between A-Z Accountancy & Taxation Services Ltd (incorporating Umbrella Reclaim and Loan Charge Reclaim) and CP Law Associates Ltd
It is our staunch belief that this merger will bring about only positive changes for everyone and will broaden our business platform to deliver a high-quality service to all our clients.

We also believe that by combining our resources, this will make us a dominant player in the area of employment claims.

CP Law Ltd will operate under the banner of C4J Ltd (Contractors for Justice) in isolation of any other Law Practice and the team will be headed up by our own in-house legal team managed by Aidan Loy an employment solicitor of 25 years standing.

We hope that you are as excited as we are about this merger, and we would like to end in assuring you that whilst this has been going on in the background for a number of months it has not impacted upon the progress we have been makingon your potential claims against Umbrella Companies and/or Agencies.

Lastly, C4J Ltd will write to you in the coming weeks to introduce themselves.

Kind regards
A-Z Accountancy & Taxation Services Ltd
UNQUOTE