UmbrellaReclaim - anyone used this?

[eek]

They just need a calculation to give a ball park figure, if the umbrella receives X reported via the agency reporting, linked by NI number, umbrella pays Y, umbrella margin is negligible, would just need to figure out how to take pension amounts into consideration.

HMRC have the pension information available (granted it's not to hand but it's accessible).

[Maltron]

HI

We have a claim going through with these at present. They understand that it is unlikely they will get the money from the Umbrella company so they are acting against the Agency. I am not sure what will happen but the way I see it is it's worth finding out for £99.

They seem a bit slow but they do give updates when requested and are pushing for a court date once everyone in the group has provided the required evidence.

Hope this helps

[UmbrellasOut]

Have an ongoing claim with these guys. No idea what’s going on. End of June they said final docs were required from me to proceed with the claim. Some updates since but still no real info as to what’s happening. They seem to be a bit shady and don’t want anyone to call or email as they say it’ll slow them down. Something doesn’t feel right.

[eek]

Have an ongoing claim with these guys. No idea what’s going on. End of June they said final docs were required from me to proceed with the claim. Some updates since but still no real info as to what’s happening. They seem to be a bit shady and don’t want anyone to call or email as they say it’ll slow them down. Something doesn’t feel right.

Never.....

I don't believe it.

[OJD]

Have an ongoing claim with these guys. No idea what’s going on. End of June they said final docs were required from me to proceed with the claim. Some updates since but still no real info as to what’s happening. They seem to be a bit shady and don’t want anyone to call or email as they say it’ll slow them down. Something doesn’t feel right.

Similar experience. Phoned a few times and been told similar, and I requested a general update to everyone be sent out and they said they would look to do this, possibly Feb or March I think they told me.

Whilst it does sound shady, I uploaded all my docs last summer and they kept ringing me to chase this or that particular document, and we got into conversation about it before they realised I had supplied other material that sufficed their needs for this and that. I don't think they would have done that if it was a smash and grab scam (it's unnecessary extra work for them). And why go to the trouble of taking on those claimants who don't pay the £99 (ie those who forfeit an extra % in exchange for a no fee basis) - seems like a lot of admin over their docs if they don't plan to work on it, as well as cost (eg advertising space on Talksport etc).

They are associated to McFaddens LLP who are a legit legal firm (it seems), so I just think that considering we are paying just a £99 fixed fee each (sometimes no fee) it's not exactly their usual hourly rate for legal work, and probably having to work on it on the side of their £ per hour legal work, which does take time. I uploaded loads of docs going back years (including lengthy contracts etc) so with potentially hundreds of claimants it can take time I imagine. They may just have one solicitor in the office going through it on an ad hoc basis, all on top of their other work. Presumably the legit legal firm would have to refund the fees if they want to keep practicing, individually or otherwise.

All that said, Companies House does show the company as active but their most recent accounts (October 2021) showed a dormant account with a £100 balance, which seems strange to me..... which account did all the £99 fees go into....?

Anyone else have an update, progress report, or feedback on this?

[eek]

Since the original post here and UmbrellaReclaim first appearing another Employment tribunal has been heard

Mr D South v Danbro Employment Umbrella Ltd: 1600554/2020 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The important bit here is that Mr South is a qualified barrister and solicitor and this case seems to have been designed with the sole purpose of generating a test case.

He completely and utterly lost....

[Bodger]

Reading through that Tribunal decision was amusing. This line in particular gave me a good chuckle!

"The claimant has not provided the Tribunal with a copy of Section 7 of the HMRC Guidance relied upon. It is not the Tribunal’s responsibility to trawl the internet to find material the parties rely upon"

[OJD]

Since the original post here and UmbrellaReclaim first appearing another Employment tribunal has been heard

Mr D South v Danbro Employment Umbrella Ltd: 1600554/2020 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The important bit here is that Mr South is a qualified barrister and solicitor and this case seems to have been designed with the sole purpose of generating a test case.

He completely and utterly lost....

Not fully read that yet but judging by the subsequent post, this was lost on technicalities re: poor paperworking for the court. Not uncommon. I have experience of the court process - I won a financial dispute case because of 2 key observations the judge raised herself on the matter. These 2 key points did not get raised by my "practicing qualified barrister" and solicitor (both recommended to me because they were highly regarded, apparently), despite my repeated promptings to them, because they didn't think they were pertinent.... Their incompetence almost cost me a further £100k+. So I wouldn't necessarily place much blind faith in Mr South purely on his qualifications.

Also, it was always acknowledged that individual claims like this would likely be lost (for various valid reasons), and a group claim stood the best chance, which is yet to be put to the test. There are already previous individual test cases that were successful, which were what led to the group claim being initiated. Mr South appears to have elected to go it alone on the basis of his legal background, presumably to save the fee / % award and for expediency.

It may well all be BS though regardless - Mr South's case may well kill it dead, I don't know. I'm going to speak to Umbrella Reclaim again today or tomorrow and will ask about Mr South, as well as their progress on the group claim.

[OJD]

Not fully read that yet but judging by the subsequent post, this was lost on technicalities re: poor paperworking for the court. Not uncommon. I have experience of the court process - I won a financial dispute case because of 2 key observations the judge raised herself on the matter. These 2 key points did not get raised by my "practicing qualified barrister" and solicitor (both recommended to me because they were highly regarded, apparently), despite my repeated promptings to them, because they didn't think they were pertinent.... Their incompetence almost cost me a further £100k+. So I wouldn't necessarily place much blind faith in Mr South purely on his qualifications.

Also, it was always acknowledged that individual claims like this would likely be lost (for various valid reasons), and a group claim stood the best chance, which is yet to be put to the test. There are already previous individual test cases that were successful, which were what led to the group claim being initiated. Mr South appears to have elected to go it alone on the basis of his legal background, presumably to save the fee / % award and for expediency.

It may well all be BS though regardless - Mr South's case may well kill it dead, I don't know. I'm going to speak to Umbrella Reclaim again today or tomorrow and will ask about Mr South, as well as their progress on the group claim.

Just spoken to Umbrella Reclaim, had a long chat. They are allocating cases etc and an update will be out next week or soon after - they acknowledged it's overdue and apologised. They also confirmed what I said - Mr South vs Danbro is just one of many individual cases, many others have been successful recently, and Group claims also have a greater % of success for (it may not even get as far as court).

[eek]

Also, it was always acknowledged that individual claims like this would likely be lost (for various valid reasons), and a group claim stood the best chance, which is yet to be put to the test. There are already previous individual test cases that were successful, which were what led to the group claim being initiated. Mr South appears to have elected to go it alone on the basis of his legal background, presumably to save the fee / % award and for expediency.

What test cases? The reason why I found the D South one is because an IR35 "expert" on LinkedIn referenced it as a win and I went back to doublecheck that my memory wasn't wrong (and it wasn't).

A first level tribunal doesn't set any precedent but can be used in subsequent cases for instance Mr South used 6Cats as an example (but it's a crap one because it was won by default - because it's not worth spending £1000 to defend a £628 claim).

If Umbrella Reclaim think there are similar cases I would love to see them as they really, really, really aren't any where the judgement has been published (and they usually are).