The PS, IR35 and GCloud

[northernladuk]

Nah mate, I'm done with the PS.

[nucastle]

There is nothing to stop you doing that. A question I'd ask is why you haven't done that before if you think that it's a good business opportunity to enable you to expand and build that consultancy (or is there a lack of opportunities being advertised that you think will pick up in the near future?).

The danger you face is that you have little to no experience of running a consultancy, which is different from running a one-person business, a lack of track record when the client says "where have you done this before", and the potential to have some one (or more than one) not deliver as much as they promised and you have to pick up the slack. If you can get past that, then it's a great idea and you should do it; if you can't then it's an awful idea.

Some years ago, three friends of mine and I looked at building more of a consultancy together, but it never took hold because some of us were more interested in the idea than others. It now looks like one of us is (to quote an agent) "off his game these days" and is struggling with the contracts that he does get - if we'd gone ahead then by this stage we would have ended up carrying him for a while.

Good luck with the business - I hope it does pay off for you, if you pursue that direction.

Yeah, actually running a consultancy is the difficult part. I'm not about to go doing that quite yet. Besides, a bunch of lone wolf contractors does not a consultancy make (probably). Was interesting to sound out just what opportunities these frameworks supposedly offer.

[eek]

Yeah, actually running a consultancy is the difficult part. I'm not about to go doing that quite yet. Besides, a bunch of lone wolf contractors does not a consultancy make (probably). Was interesting to sound out just what opportunities these frameworks supposedly offer.

That's easy. You go and look at the historic tenders on the government website and work out what is needed to deliver one and how you would get a start up consultancy ahead of the bigger players - hint in my case it would be existing tools that I own that do at least half the work they require given me a prototype to demo

[youngguy]

Well that's what I'm getting at.

I'm not looking to 'get around' anything, but looking at it from another perspective which is given most of us ex/current PS contractors know how things work there, then what is to stop a few like minded contractors clubbing together, forming a consultancy, potentially taking on some salaried staff and going to market via one of these frameworks.

If there is some tangible walk out, and the Government attempts to procure outcomes/specialists in the way they 'say' they want to do it (yes, big 'IF') then maybe this is an opportunity.

The other alternatives/workarounds discussed on other threads are completely outside of what I'm suggesting, which on the face of it (not that anyone is giving any details) appear to just be artificial structures attempting to keep PSC contractors doing what they have always done.

I looked into this once.

It needs money upfront, much more effort and actually being a full business with staff and when it came to it, the bunch of people talking to me seemed to think it wasn't gonna be a long hard slog.

It is doable , but I personally decided the risk was too great. Each to their own of course

[Gomez]

I'm in an interesting position which is totally related to this thread. Currently coming into client via G-Cloud through a micro consultancy that is owned by a friend of mine. Contract between my LTD and friend's LTD has been reviewed by Abbey Tax as being outside IR35. I have clear deliverables and timeframes in the contract. My friend has contacted the client who currently state that they are not considering anything off G-Cloud to be an issue in relation to IR35. I'm hoping that will continue to be the case post April as client wants to place an order for another 6 months work.

My view on this is that it will be worth taking the risk. If client decides that G-Cloud is fair game when it comes to determining status, I will make sure I have done everything to prove that I am outside. Contract review and certificate, use own equipment, work remotely from own office, right of substitution, insurances, etc etc etc. An earlier poster made the key point that IR35 itself hasn't changed.

I've also just applied to get onto DOS framework.

[northernladuk]

I'm in an interesting position which is totally related to this thread. Currently coming into client via G-Cloud through a micro consultancy that is owned by a friend of mine. Contract between my LTD and friend's LTD has been reviewed by Abbey Tax as being outside IR35. I have clear deliverables and timeframes in the contract. My friend has contacted the client who currently state that they are not considering anything off G-Cloud to be an issue in relation to IR35. I'm hoping that will continue to be the case post April as client wants to place an order for another 6 months work.

Nicely worked and does look pretty safe but you haven't mentioned what is being delivered by his consultancy. It might be on GCloud but if it is still delivering personal services directly to the client sitting along side permies etc I can't help but thinking you are going to be caught. The order for 6 months work is the red flag for me. If you had said phase 2 or a new service I would have been OK. The devil is deep in the details of the engagement regardless of your situation LTD to LTD.

My view on this is that it will be worth taking the risk. If client decides that G-Cloud is fair game when it comes to determining status, I will make sure I have done everything to prove that I am outside. Contract review and certificate, use own equipment, work remotely from own office, right of substitution, insurances, etc etc etc. An earlier poster made the key point that IR35 itself hasn't changed.

I've also just applied to get onto DOS framework.

I don't think Gcloud itself will come under scrutiny but the individual contracts could. They've already cleaned out the agencies including the 'consultancy' I was with that was just delivering bodies. If there is a mad rush to Gcloud and people fudging the process I can't help but think it will come under scrutiny. Again looking after yourself won't help if the legislation applies. Contract reviews aren't considered etc. It will be down to the percentage of personal service you offer.

Sounds like you are in a good place but there are enough red flags in that post to make me think you want to be right on top of this and not assuming your are fine IMO.

[easy rider]

This guy knows how to play the PS

Denial over Scottish government IT project 'conflict' - BBC News

[Gomez]

Grateful for some perspective on this. I appreciate it.

Nicely worked and does look pretty safe but you haven't mentioned what is being delivered by his consultancy. It might be on GCloud but if it is still delivering personal services directly to the client sitting along side permies etc I can't help but thinking you are going to be caught. The order for 6 months work is the red flag for me. If you had said phase 2 or a new service I would have been OK. The devil is deep in the details of the engagement regardless of your situation LTD to LTD.

What is being delivered are a number of discrete pieces of work across a range of projects. Some of this is follow on work on projects that have been supported over the last 6 months or so. G-Cloud has to be 'bought' on number of days or hours generally. I guess one thing in my favour is that there are no other contractors on site (or permies for that matter) doing what I am doing. I don't think they could refer to my work as BoS.

Sounds like you are in a good place but there are enough red flags in that post to make me think you want to be right on top of this and not assuming your are fine IMO.

I'm not making any assumption I will be fine. What the client say now and what they say come April could be completely different. I'm going to keep a really close eye on things.