Is George Osbourne keeping you awake?

[BrilloPad]

What gets me awake, and makes me angry, is reading some contractors WHINE about these changes after they did not to help those hit by retrospective legislation in 2008. And even voraciously criticized using stupid statements like "fair share".

And the belief that these new changes can be challenged via political pressure.

If you are getting angry or losing sleep now, try living with it for 7 years.

You are clearly not cut out for business or to be contractors. Crawl under the permie rock from where you came.

[DotasScandal]

What gets me awake, and makes me angry, is reading some contractors WHINE about these changes after they did not to help those hit by retrospective legislation in 2008. And even voraciously criticized using stupid statements like "fair share".

Difficult not to agree!!

[cojak]

And just just so you know, I moderate this forum in the same manner as the HMRC Enquiries forum, so no bitching please.

[BrilloPad]

But let's wait, eh? It's only a few days away, and there should be some more clarity at that point (although don't expect complete clarity).

I really hope there is no substance to the rumours. Agreed - best to wait.

I think, as usual, it is bully boy scare tactics. The problem is how to fight that.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Ok guys please stop panicking - nothing has happened yet and no amount of worrying will change what is going to happen

HMG had a pretty much unprecedented response to the T&S consultation with lots of organisations both contracting industry and big business giving a multitude of reasons why this is a really bad idea; HMRC may moderate the proposals, they may decide to think about it all for a bit longer, they may scrap the proposal altogether or they may just bring it in in its entirety.

Contractors are needed - this industry has only grown the way it has because of supply and demand and demand has increased because it is now so expensive to employ permies and employers are subject to increased risks of litigation. Pensions auto-enrolment, changes to holiday pay rules, flexible working, Statutory payments etc etc all add up so companies are increasingly looking to a temporary workforce to fill the gaps in their skillset. I think that clientco will be persuaded to cough up for at least some travel costs to be able to keep contractors on their books rather than recruiting permies or workers under FTC's - I could well be wrong but I run a business and, if I need someone for a project for a few weeks, I would be happy to pay 10% more than I paid for the same thing last year just for the convenience.

With regard to the IR35 changes - I think that what was 'leaked' was a consultation document; if that is the case then the consultation will probably not be undertaken until the early part of next year which means that any changes will probably be introduced in 2017 rather than next year. If that is the case then I suggest that as many of you as possible get along to the consultation so that you can give HMRC your views face to face - in a meeting that we had with them this year they said that they believed contractors didn't really care what went on - the 700 responses we ended up sending to them for the T&S consultation will hopefully gone some way to changing their minds but it can't just be a one off. We have to show them that we do care and we have to keep on until they get that there is a big difference between a contractor and a temp!

[MarkT]

Ok guys please stop panicking - nothing has happened yet and no amount of worrying will change what is going to happen

HMG had a pretty much unprecedented response to the T&S consultation with lots of organisations both contracting industry and big business giving a multitude of reasons why this is a really bad idea; HMRC may moderate the proposals, they may decide to think about it all for a bit longer, they may scrap the proposal altogether or they may just bring it in in its entirety.

Contractors are needed - this industry has only grown the way it has because of supply and demand and demand has increased because it is now so expensive to employ permies and employers are subject to increased risks of litigation. Pensions auto-enrolment, changes to holiday pay rules, flexible working, Statutory payments etc etc all add up so companies are increasingly looking to a temporary workforce to fill the gaps in their skillset. I think that clientco will be persuaded to cough up for at least some travel costs to be able to keep contractors on their books rather than recruiting permies or workers under FTC's - I could well be wrong but I run a business and, if I need someone for a project for a few weeks, I would be happy to pay 10% more than I paid for the same thing last year just for the convenience.

With regard to the IR35 changes - I think that what was 'leaked' was a consultation document; if that is the case then the consultation will probably not be undertaken until the early part of next year which means that any changes will probably be introduced in 2017 rather than next year. If that is the case then I suggest that as many of you as possible get along to the consultation so that you can give HMRC your views face to face - in a meeting that we had with them this year they said that they believed contractors didn't really care what went on - the 700 responses we ended up sending to them for the T&S consultation will hopefully gone some way to changing their minds but it can't just be a one off. We have to show them that we do care and we have to keep on until they get that there is a big difference between a contractor and a temp!

Why couldn't you have been around on Friday night Lisa? ;-) I've a meeting with my MP next week, just in case. I'll be pushing this hard with him.

It's worth saying, I do agree that the T&S seems incredible. But what's more concerning is the test on SDC.
If that comes in, and we fail, we are then, by default caught by IR35, because we have SDC.

And it doesn't look as if there will be a way to pass the damn thing!

[DotasScandal]

in a meeting that we had with them this year they said that they believed contractors didn't really care what went on - the 700 responses we ended up sending to them for the T&S consultation will hopefully gone some way to changing their minds

The scale of the response to the consultation on APNs was also qualified with the term "unprecedented".
The proposals were slammed by CIOT, the Law Society, ICAEW and tons others...
We know how it went down in the end...
If anyone needed proof that "consultations" are nowadays largely for show, we'd argue that was it.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Why couldn't you have been around on Friday night Lisa? ;-) I've a meeting with my MP next week, just in case. I'll be pushing this hard with him.

It's worth saying, I do agree that the T&S seems incredible. But what's more concerning is the test on SDC.
If that comes in, and we fail, we are then, by default caught by IR35, because we have SDC.

And it doesn't look as if there will be a way to pass the damn thing!

What happened Friday night

The SDC test is strange and I can't see it working but only time (and the courts of law) will tell

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The scale of the response to the consultation on APNs was also qualified with the term "unprecedented".
The proposals were slammed by CIOT, the Law Society, ICAEW and tons others...
We know how it went down in the end...
If anyone needed proof that "consultations" are nowadays largely for show, we'd argue that was it.

You could well be right - it may all be a waste of time in the end but the alternative is to roll over and just take what's thrown at us

[DotasScandal]

You could well be right - it may all be a waste of time in the end but the alternative is to roll over and just take what's thrown at us

Not an alternative I am in any way suggesting, Lisa!
By all means bombing them with responses is the way to go.
Just wanted to point out the very recent precedent (that was, it must be said, largely disregarded by Ltd. contractors at the time because, hey, "it's somebody else's problem". Unfortunately it has emboldened the Government in their anti-contractor stance, and now we all suffer)