C++ Renaissance Here Due To WinRT C++/CX ?

[woohoo]

WHS. C++ was always there (you're using a C++ app to view this), but now more people are realising that power and CPU efficiency was important after all. PermieCo make proper electronic devices that go into racks and where power consumption vs throughput is all important. Anyone suggesting the software should be done in .NET or Java would be laughed at.

Yeah but the majority of programmers I know their work doesn't include optimizing applications for power or CPU efficiency. You use C# and the .Net framework so you can produce code quicker and more easily, so in effect you are more productive.

[VectraMan]

Yeah but the majority of programmers I know their work doesn't include optimizing applications for power or CPU efficiency.

And that leads to applications being inefficient and slow. If it goes in a data centre, then that means more servers than necessary, more electricity than necessary, more air-conditioning than necessary, and that adds significantly to the cost of the business.

You use C# and the .Net framework so you can produce code quicker and more easily, so in effect you are more productive.

That's often the excuse given, but I don't think that's true. Any decent programmer in language A is probably just as productive as a decent programmer in language B. You could argue that a crap programmer can do more damage and cause more problems in language A than language B, but the problem there is that they're a crap programmer.

[eek]

And that leads to applications being inefficient and slow. If it goes in a data centre, then that means more servers than necessary, more electricity than necessary, more air-conditioning than necessary, and that adds significantly to the cost of the business.



That's often the excuse given, but I don't think that's true. Any decent programmer in language A is probably just as productive as a decent programmer in language B. You could argue that a crap programmer can do more damage and cause more problems in language A than language B, but the problem there is that they're a crap programmer.

Which is why the language that will actually win will be javascript via node. As V8 just takes that javascript and translates it to native machine code before running it....

Sorry to disappoint you all but node is scarily fast if written badly, scarily, scarily fast if written well.

[d000hg]

Most applications don't run in the cloud, or even if they do they are not run as big shared data-centre applications. If you are writing a typical application on a local or cloudy server, the difference in cost between C# and C++ might be one extra size of node on EC2, i.e. a few hundred bucks a year.

Using Big Data as an example is not representative of what most of us actually do.

[woohoo]

And that leads to applications being inefficient and slow. If it goes in a data centre, then that means more servers than necessary, more electricity than necessary, more air-conditioning than necessary, and that adds significantly to the cost of the business.

I don't believe that is the case. The difference between the two languages is only plain if you really have to optimize the code, C++ gives you more options. However, most code should never be optimized, optimisation makes it more complicated, open to errors and difficult to maintain. In 20 years of programming most of my optimisation has been made to the database or introducing caching, plus various approaches to making a web page faster.

That's often the excuse given, but I don't think that's true. Any decent programmer in language A is probably just as productive as a decent programmer in language B. You could argue that a crap programmer can do more damage and cause more problems in language A than language B, but the problem there is that they're a crap programmer.

I'm not giving an excuse, not sure where you got that from. However, many people including myself appreciate the amount of work we don't have to do because the framework has already done it.

I'm not knocking C++, its been many years since I've done anything with it, however the argument that C# or .Net is redundant because of optimisation possibilities, I think is wrong.

[doodab]

Most applications don't run in the cloud, or even if they do they are not run as big shared data-centre applications. If you are writing a typical application on a local or cloudy server, the difference in cost between C# and C++ might be one extra size of node on EC2, i.e. a few hundred bucks a year.

Using Big Data as an example is not representative of what most of us actually do.

Servers are often wildly overspecced and doubled or tripled up for "HA" reasons as well. Virtualisation offers some respite but nothing will stop people wasting money if they have a budget and a need to feel important.

[woohoo]

Which is why the language that will actually win will be javascript via node. As V8 just takes that javascript and translates it to native machine code before running it....

Sorry to disappoint you all but node is scarily fast if written badly, scarily, scarily fast if written well.

I don't know much about V8 but are you saying I could write my domain model or business logic, repositories etc in JavaScript and have them run on the server?

[VectraMan]

Most applications don't run in the cloud, or even if they do they are not run as big shared data-centre applications. If you are writing a typical application on a local or cloudy server, the difference in cost between C# and C++ might be one extra size of node on EC2, i.e. a few hundred bucks a year.

Using Big Data as an example is not representative of what most of us actually do.

That's fair, but then who doesn't want more battery life from their tablet/smartphone/laptop? Even a desktop PC will suck more electricity because of inefficient software. Yes optimising everything isn't generally worth the cost, but that's not the point. The point is if everything else is 50/50 you may as well choose the efficient option.

[VectraMan]

I'm not giving an excuse, not sure where you got that from. However, many people including myself appreciate the amount of work we don't have to do because the framework has already done it.

Now you're talking about a library, not the language. Do .NET in C++ and you get all the things the framework has done for you plus native code speed for when it's important.

I'm not knocking C++, its been many years since I've done anything with it, however the argument that C# or .Net is redundant because of optimisation possibilities, I think is wrong.

I'm not saying it's redundant, just that some of the focus has moved back towards efficiency.

[woohoo]

Anyone suggesting the software should be done in .NET or Java would be laughed at.

From your comments I didn't think you where talking about optimisation with C++ running on .Net.