Java Platform Any Good?

[SueEllen]

If the company is not relying on you to develop the software on your own you should check the wages/contract rates for developers in different languages.

[NickFitz]

And much faster than Java. To be honest its probably faster to create your own language than program in Java. That's the reason languages such as Ruby appeared..

The benchmarks I've seen testing multiple backend frameworks usually show a pure Java Servlet API knocks spots off everything else, often by several orders of magnitude.

But that's just testing speed of the finished and deployed artefact; I reckon it's much quicker and easier to get from nothing to a working web app in Django, or a PHP framework like Symfony 2, than with any of the options available on Java (or .NET come to that). I also suspect they're easier to maintain in the long term.

But that's just me; I have no evidence for these opinions, though no doubt there are a good assortment of both meaningful and meaningless studies out there to "prove" whatever needs to be proved

[minestrone]

And much faster than Java. To be honest its probably faster to create your own language than program in Java. That's the reason languages such as Ruby appeared..

I honestly don't know what you do in the world of IT but if you are going around offering up that advice then people will be laughing at you. I know speed comparisons are to be taken with a pinch of salt but java will be faster by a magnitude of tens if not hundreds of times over what you have quoted, I have read dozens of these type of things...

/var/log/mind

...and having developed in Ruby I can say I found the performance of the technology astoundingly poor.

The advantage of java over these other technologies is that it had over a decade of massive investment into performance of the language and the virtual machines by the likes of IBM, Oracle, SUN, BEA and it shows, dramatically.

[NickFitz]

Another option, if there are already a lot of .NET types around the place, is Mono, an open source implementation of .NET: Mono

[eek]

I honestly don't know what you do in the world of IT but if you are going around offering up that advice then people will be laughing at you. I know speed comparisons are to be taken with a pinch of salt but java will be faster by a magnitude of tens if not hundreds of times over what you have quoted, I have read dozens of these type of things...

/var/log/mind

...and having developed in Ruby I can say I found the performance of the technology astoundingly poor.

The advantage of java over these other technologies is that it had over a decade of massive investment into performance of the language and the virtual machines by the likes of IBM, Oracle, SUN BEA and it shows, dramatically.

You seem to miss context which you might have got if you had read either my previous comment or the next sentence.

My comment was not on the speed of Java when written and compiled but the speed of development on Javaq. Well written java is fast, it just takes eons to write.

[minestrone]

I think the argument that it takes longer to write websites in java is one based on ignorance of the technology, you can write apps in exactly the same manner as you can with PHP if you so desire, almost matching line for line, file for file. Nobody does though, for a reason.

I do readily admit that more often than not clients java web implementations are fookin brutal to the point creating a simple single page can take days, java is an expressive language and they often let total zoomers near the controls.

[minestrone]

You seem to miss context which you might have got if you had read either my previous comment or the next sentence.

My comment was not on the speed of Java when written and compiled but the speed of development on Javaq. Well written java is fast, it just takes eons to write.

All I can say is I am watching Murder She Wrote whilst typing, nick got it wrong as well, what is he watching?

[lilelvis2000]

Its exponents tend to be ex VB developers and carry forward its sins.

Kind of like C developers always write tulipe java code but there are far less of them around.

How would a old C++ programmer fare?

[eek]

I think the argument that it takes longer to write websites in java is one based on ignorance of the technology, you can write apps in exactly the same manner as you can with PHP if you so desire, almost matching line for line, file for file. Nobody does though, for a reason.

I do readily admit that more often than not clients java web implementations are fookin brutal to the point creating a simple single page can take days, java is an expressive language and they often let total zoomers near the controls.

That may be the case but for a reasonable developer there are probably more acceptable short cuts and wizards in .net rather than java. I remember 1 survey recently where they claimed their product could be used to right code at twice the speed of .net development and 3x the speed of java development which feels plausible for your average developer.

I know at current client co .net development is quicker than java. Although that may have a lot to do with the java teams recent move to git (which seems to be both it's name and temperament )

[lilelvis2000]

Another option, if there are already a lot of .NET types around the place, is Mono, an open source implementation of .NET: Mono

Will look into it. Thanks.