Reply to: Do any Umbrellas do anything with the Apprenticeship Levy other than hand it to HMRC?

[eek]

I don't believe there's a rule that stops anyone from doing this. There are restrictions on how to spend it, but plenty of organisations that will help you do it. Councils tend to use the AL pretty well.

CONEL (https://www.conel.ac.uk/) offer help in this space - one of many.

So go back and see what you can actually spend the money on - hint it’s not on things we would want to spend training funds on

[andymalory]

They can't - believe me I know some have tried to but the rules don't allow them to do so....

I don't believe there's a rule that stops anyone from doing this. There are restrictions on how to spend it, but plenty of organisations that will help you do it. Councils tend to use the AL pretty well.

CONEL (https://www.conel.ac.uk/) offer help in this space - one of many.

[eek]

Erm...are you lucy's snappy alter ego? The question was to her - how are you in a position to answer whether it's possible for her to look into or not. Rhetorical question BTW.

Erm - the main point was that it can't be given to you no matter how much you hope it could be - and it seemed right to point out that fact.

[Olly]

It's possible but it won't be going to you - more likely a local firm (not attached to any umbrella employees) that wants to spend money on training...

Erm...are you lucy's snappy alter ego? The question was to her - how are you in a position to answer whether it's possible for her to look into or not. Rhetorical question BTW.

[eek]

Does that mean you're going to look into please ??? lucyclarityumbrella

It's possible but it won't be going to you - more likely a local firm (not attached to any umbrella employees) that wants to spend money on training...

[Olly]

I'm sure we can gift a proportion of it to Ltd companies for training???? Just a thought?

Does that mean you're going to look into please ??? lucyclarityumbrella

[lucyclarityumbrella]

I'm sure we can gift a proportion of it to Ltd companies for training???? Just a thought?

[ladymuck]

Oh, and...

The funds that a company can't spend are pooled and divvied out to SMEs to help them with the costs of training their staff. I don't know the details of the mechanism but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

I presume that's unacceptable to you too.

[ladymuck]

err....how would I demonstrate it was Apprenticeship Levy money that was being spent other than that is what I was told through my recollection of an extensive discussion with the lady who runs all the Apprenticeship schemes at the bank - many people were doing them - plenty at level 7.
If the rules have changed recently then that's a real shame as it likely means much more of this money will just go to HMRC rather than on training. Mind you, an ambiguous blog post on the Education Hub does not constitute law AFAIK.

Well you could say that about the content on all the gov.uk sites but I would hope it would be aligned to what is legally allowed.

[eek]

err....how would I demonstrate it was Apprenticeship Levy money that was being spent other than that is what I was told through my recollection of an extensive discussion with the lady who runs all the Apprenticeship schemes at the bank - many people were doing them - plenty at level 7.
If the rules have changed recently then that's a real shame as it likely means much more of this money will just go to HMRC rather than on training. Mind you, an ambiguous blog post on the Education Hub does not constitute law AFAIK.

Given that it was you who said that your masters was paid for via the Apprenticeship levy - it's for you to prove what you claim to be true was actually true.

Many firms will have a separate pots of money for Corporate training all of which are likely to be run by the same team within HR.

And remember it is the regular posters on this site telling you why an umbrella firms can't do XYZ and you as an irregular poster claiming yes they can while .

All we are doing is pointing out that you have zero evidence to back up your claim that an umbrella firm can abuse their apprenticeship levy fund when the rules are very clear cut - and block most of the things a contractor would spend training money on.

[Olly]

err....how would I demonstrate it was Apprenticeship Levy money that was being spent other than that is what I was told through my recollection of an extensive discussion with the lady who runs all the Apprenticeship schemes at the bank - many people were doing them - plenty at level 7.
If the rules have changed recently then that's a real shame as it likely means much more of this money will just go to HMRC rather than on training. Mind you, an ambiguous blog post on the Education Hub does not constitute law AFAIK.

[eek]

I wasn't hired as an apprentice at my previous employer - and of course I'm not being hired as an apprentice by my umbrella but it's absolutely my understanding that I am being 'employed'
The training provider didn't charge any extra for the MBA so no rules were being broken - they are a very risk-averse bank.

Yet the one thing you haven't demonstrated is that Apprenticeship levy money was spent - but you have shown that the spirit of the law was broken which is probably why the guidance explicitly rules out the trick you boast about - note that the page LM is quoting from is dated last Friday, 10th March 2023.

[Olly]

I wasn't hired as an apprentice at my previous employer - and of course I'm not being hired as an apprentice by my umbrella but it's absolutely my understanding that I am being 'employed'
The training provider didn't charge any extra for the MBA so no rules were being broken - they are a very risk-averse bank.

[ladymuck]

An apprentice is not a contractor. The clue in your own example is that they were employed.

Although you are employed by the umbrella, you have not been hired as an apprentice.

Interestingly, I wonder if your employer broke the rules (my emphasis), or maybe they just paid for it themselves and not out of the levy:

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/202...ticeship-levy/

What can’t the levy be used for?

Levy funds can only be used to pay for apprentices to achieve qualifications that are set out in their approved apprenticeship training programme and are deemed necessary to being effective in the job, such as a degree or a diploma. Businesses large and small offer apprenticeships in a wide range of exciting roles and at all levels right up to degree level.

Levy funds can’t be used to pay apprentice wages, for ‘top-up’ qualifications, or qualifications that are not already approved as part of the apprenticeship.

For example, levy funds can’t be used to pay for apprentices who are on the Level 7 senior leader apprenticeship to do their Master of Business Administration (MBA). MBAs are not a mandatory part of any apprenticeship. However, the apprentice or their employer is free to pay extra from their own funds for the MBA qualification.

[Olly]

There is a very obvious clue in the name of the levy.

And a contractor selling their specialist skills at £x00 a day isn't an Apprentice.

My previous employer - true perm job, not a contract - were paying for me to do an MSc through the Apprenticeship Levy and my equivalent day rate was well into £x00 a day so I'm not sure what the "clue" is in the name. An apprenticeship goes up to level 7 which a good number of institutions will also offer an MSc or MBA for including Cranfield.