Reply to: Umbrella contractor breaking the contract.

[kin]

However given that we don't know the actual terms within all the contracts any concern with liability is theoretical.

Previously in the scenarios where the end client insists on there being no escape clause the agency has been the party to emphasis the fact that the contract needs to be completed in full.

he fact the agency isn't saying that to me says that the end client is trying it on.

What the OP needs to have is a very clear conversation with the agency as to what the contracts say to ascertain why the end client believes there is no notice period but the agency is believes there is one.

Oh and absolute worst case scenario - the OP can go on the sick due to stress while ignoring the sick note as he starts his new job (after all that would minimise any risk of stress).

Given that he will be using a limited company for his new outside contract it will be very hard for the end client to argue the point provided the OP doesn't do anything stupid like post his new contract on LinkedIn until well after the original contract was supposed to end.

Thank you all for spending your valuable time replying to my queries.
I will keep you updated with the outcome.
Hope it may help someone else with the same situation.

[eek]

The liability will flow down the supply chain. The client will try and recover the sum from the agency, who will in-turn try and recover it from the umbrella. The umbrella wouldn't want to take the hit over something that's outside of its control, and depending on the contract it has signed with the worker it will try and recover the sum from the worker.

The insurances will most likely not cover wilful breach of contract.

Thanks


Zeeshan

However given that we don't know the actual terms within all the contracts any concern with liability is theoretical.

Previously in the scenarios where the end client insists on there being no escape clause the agency has been the party to emphasis the fact that the contract needs to be completed in full.

he fact the agency isn't saying that to me says that the end client is trying it on.

What the OP needs to have is a very clear conversation with the agency as to what the contracts say to ascertain why the end client believes there is no notice period but the agency is believes there is one.

Oh and absolute worst case scenario - the OP can go on the sick due to stress while ignoring the sick note as he starts his new job (after all that would minimise any risk of stress).

Given that he will be using a limited company for his new outside contract it will be very hard for the end client to argue the point provided the OP doesn't do anything stupid like post his new contract on LinkedIn until well after the original contract was supposed to end.

[DolanContractorGroup]

In the worst case scenario, if client claims for the loss of revenue for breaching the contract, who will pay that. Will it come from umbrella or agency or me. I can see umbrella and agency both have a indemnity or other liability insurances.

The liability will flow down the supply chain. The client will try and recover the sum from the agency, who will in-turn try and recover it from the umbrella. The umbrella wouldn't want to take the hit over something that's outside of its control, and depending on the contract it has signed with the worker it will try and recover the sum from the worker.

The insurances will most likely not cover wilful breach of contract.

Thanks


Zeeshan

[kin]

Sometimes the end client will not allow the agency/umbrella to give notice to terminate early; there could be many reasons for this. Unless the umbrella agreement says something onerous like "the supplier agrees to provide a hand-over consultant chosen by the client, for 1 week, at no charge" then it's best to just ask the agency and umbrella to keep speaking to the client to come to an amicable resolution.

Worse comes to worse, maybe best to complete the assignment as there could be costs involved for breaching the contract.

Thanks

Zeeshan

In the worst case scenario, if client claims for the loss of revenue for breaching the contract, who will pay that. Will it come from umbrella or agency or me. I can see umbrella and agency both have a indemnity or other liability insurances.

[DolanContractorGroup]

Sometimes the end client will not allow the agency/umbrella to give notice to terminate early; there could be many reasons for this. Unless the umbrella agreement says something onerous like "the supplier agrees to provide a hand-over consultant chosen by the client, for 1 week, at no charge" then it's best to just ask the agency and umbrella to keep speaking to the client to come to an amicable resolution.

Worse comes to worse, maybe best to complete the assignment as there could be costs involved for breaching the contract.

Thanks

Zeeshan

[eek]

I am leaving that i found an outside IR35. Agency is happy that i worked with them for 4 years.
Client failed to replace the lost resources in past two years, not they are in situation where they can't risk of loosing more people.

I gave them 4 weeks notice to release me from the assignment, as they promised us we don't hold you back ( again this is not written just a word).

In which case it's just the end client being a complete arse about things - I would ask the agency / umbrella to explain the situation - the agency will know the exact terms of the contract between themselves and the end client and I can't imagine it includes forcing people to work against their will.

[kin]

Be prepared to say goodbye to any monies you are currently owed by any of the parties. They legally can't withold it but in cases they'll claim it's to cover breach of contract which you have done. They should pay you and then sue you later, not withold your pay but we've seen plenty of cases where they didn't pay on here.

You may be alright if the agency is OK to terminate the contract and aren't claiming you've breached it but the client may not pay them.

Does seem odd the client is holding you contract but the agent isn't bothered. I'd bet this is sour grapes from the client who's hacked off and knows the terms of the contract but they'll cave eventually. As Eek says, no client wants someone that doesn't want to be there, you are just a liability to them from here on in.

What notice are you willing to work to do a handover to someone else? Why exactly do you want to leave?

I am leaving that i found an outside IR35. Agency is happy that i worked with them for 4 years.
Client failed to replace the lost resources in past two years, not they are in situation where they can't risk of loosing more people.

I gave them 4 weeks notice to release me from the assignment, as they promised us we don't hold you back ( again this is not written just a word).

[northernladuk]

Be prepared to say goodbye to any monies you are currently owed by any of the parties. They legally can't withold it but in cases they'll claim it's to cover breach of contract which you have done. They should pay you and then sue you later, not withold your pay but we've seen plenty of cases where they didn't pay on here.

You may be alright if the agency is OK to terminate the contract and aren't claiming you've breached it but the client may not pay them.

Does seem odd the client is holding you contract but the agent isn't bothered. I'd bet this is sour grapes from the client who's hacked off and knows the terms of the contract but they'll cave eventually. As Eek says, no client wants someone that doesn't want to be there, you are just a liability to them from here on in.

What notice are you willing to work to do a handover to someone else? Why exactly do you want to leave?

[eek]

End Client.

So we are down to the question of what the end client is expecting here because why would any client want a worker who doesn’t want to be there.

this may seem a silly question but did you opt out of agency regulations?

[kin]

And who is the company manager you referred to earlier - end client, agency or umbrella?

Agency and Umbrella are happy to release me. But the end client don't want to release me.

[kin]

And who is the company manager you referred to earlier - end client, agency or umbrella?

End Client.

[eek]

This is on the assignment agreement with umbrella and agency.

And who is the company manager you referred to earlier - end client, agency or umbrella?

[kin]

What piece of paper says what?

We have multiple moving pieces here

1) you employment contract with the umbrella
2) your assignment agreement with the umbrella and the agency
3) what the actual agreement is - remember that Barclay's (picking 1 end client we know does this) offers a contract with different notice periods (little on their side, no notice allowed on the contractors side so a 9 month contract means you have to stay all 9 months)...

so it's hard to offer advice without a more detailed explanation of what every piece of paper says and who knows and has said what.,..

This is on the assignment agreement with umbrella and agency.

[cojak]

It will also likely say that they won't pay you for time not worked and something about availability. You can just not be available for work until the end of the contract whilst the contract is in place.

Giant tried this on with me too after they were publically cyber attacked and out of commission for some time, but they caved. Depends on how hard nosed you want to be and whether it's the client or umbrella who are insisting on the no notice I guess.

Yep, absolutely depends on who is enforcing it.

[eek]

It says "Must finish the assignment".

What piece of paper says what?

We have multiple moving pieces here

1) you employment contract with the umbrella
2) your assignment agreement with the umbrella and the agency
3) what the actual agreement is - remember that Barclay's (picking 1 end client we know does this) offers a contract with different notice periods (little on their side, no notice allowed on the contractors side so a 9 month contract means you have to stay all 9 months)...

so it's hard to offer advice without a more detailed explanation of what every piece of paper says and who knows and has said what.,..