Reply to: JSA umbrella and Aegon pension

[measterbrook]

For the contract work prior to switching to the umbrella (as although measterbrook can claim that the contract is outside the actions of his client show that the client felt it was an inside IR35 contract).

The client decided that the new rules were a risk so just blanket banned LtdCo contractors. Some contractors requested IR35 determination and were outside, which meant they might be able to claim expenses through an umbrella company, but the blanket ban was an operating business decision and therefore remained for all regardless of individual determinations. For the client it is now simple - all contractors are on the same basis and it does not have to deal with 2 or more types of contracts, nor does it have to worry about ever changing IR35 rules and guidelines from HMG/HMRC. It seems that the client wins, and the contractors lose - except the client loses some of the best contractors, who move to more accommodating clients with better working relationship.

[measterbrook]

I'm not sure if this relates to your query but I had a call from JSA yesterday who said they couldn't work with Standard Life, Aviva or Aegon on a Salary Sacrifice Pension basis as those pension companies would only accept payments by Direct Debit and JSA will only operate by Bank Transfer.
JSA's argument, I was told, being they weren't prepared to set up DD's on the basis of - Admin effort on their part but more importantly a Direct Debit will always pay out, from a JSA bank account, and if you don't work for a period (of a week or two or more) in a month there may not be enough income from your work in a month to cover the Direct Debit payment from their bank account.

Anyone know if that is a common issue with any other Brollies - as my pension is currently with Standard Life.

Tell them you want to pay one-off variable payments into the pension by bank transfer.

JSA paid by bank transfer to Aegon. Now I have switched providers and they pay by bank transfer to Fidelity (SIPP). Pension companies seem to only allow fixed amounts by direct debit for a monthly scheme, however, they accept bank transfer for one-off and variable payments, which can be made at any time, such as once a month. You will need to fill in the pension company's one-off payment paperwork every month for the amount transferred. I have the dates on the paperwork in pencil and just change, scan, and upload each month as soon a JSA tell me the amount.

However, with Aegon, JSA are not meeting the pension anti-money laundering requirements and therefore payments are in a holding account. I am trying to resolve this but neither JSA nor Aegon are willing to compromise.

[eek]

Anyone know if that is a common issue with any other Brollies - as my pension is currently with Standard Life.

Direct debits are a problem for an umbrella as it means £x goes out of their account unless they remember to change it, bank transfers can be done when the money is there and there are a lot of reasons (all out of the umbrellas control) as to why the money may not be there

[Paralytic]

I'm not sure if this relates to your query but I had a call from JSA yesterday who said they couldn't work with Standard Life, Aviva or Aegon on a Salary Sacrifice Pension basis as those pension companies would only accept payments by Direct Debit and JSA will only operate by Bank Transfer.
JSA's argument, I was told, being they weren't prepared to set up DD's on the basis of - Admin effort on their part but more importantly a Direct Debit will always pay out, from a JSA bank account, and if you don't work for a period (of a week or two or more) in a month there may not be enough income from your work in a month to cover the Direct Debit payment from their bank account.

Anyone know if that is a common issue with any other Brollies - as my pension is currently with Standard Life.

I know for a fact that NASA does allow salary sacrifice transfers to into a pre-existing Aviva pension. I don't know if its a DD or a SO between NASA and Aviva, but I do know that the amount can vary month-on-month, depending on how many billable days there has been in that month.

[richt5a]

Is anyone here using JSA Umbrella and is paying via salary sacrifice into an Aegon pension? I want to check if what JSA and Aegon are telling me is correct. This is an issue only related to JSA and Aegon.

I'm not sure if this relates to your query but I had a call from JSA yesterday who said they couldn't work with Standard Life, Aviva or Aegon on a Salary Sacrifice Pension basis as those pension companies would only accept payments by Direct Debit and JSA will only operate by Bank Transfer.
JSA's argument, I was told, being they weren't prepared to set up DD's on the basis of - Admin effort on their part but more importantly a Direct Debit will always pay out, from a JSA bank account, and if you don't work for a period (of a week or two or more) in a month there may not be enough income from your work in a month to cover the Direct Debit payment from their bank account.

Anyone know if that is a common issue with any other Brollies - as my pension is currently with Standard Life.

[northernladuk]

No, they banned LtdCo and requested Umbrella at the same rate. I walked. So did too many others. Two months down the line they had been forced to allow home working by Covid and offered an increased rate - I accepted on the condition of home working mornings only. It would be difficult to show it was the same working conditions before and after the gap

IMO any changes to location and conditions when used as a differentiator between a perm and contractor are irrelevant in these times. Clients being flexible about WFH affects the entire country right now so I most certainly wouldn't be relying on that as any kind of defence for anything.

Hopefully HMRC have lower hanging fruit to pick, and haven't they re-deployed all the IR35 investigators onto all the Covid fraud - that will keep them occupied for years.

Another very dangerous assumption. This exercise will pay for itself and if there is money to be had they'll throw resources at it. I'd say even your situation falls in to a low hanging fruit area or at least up there. Letters to the client like GSK would also work in this situation.
If there is money to be had in these times I'd have thought there will be MORE focus on investigations not less right now.

Anyway, I still have my "HMRC confirms outside IR35" letter from the conclusion of the last "records check" they tried on me.

Which is about the only real comment of any worth. This should certainly help.

[measterbrook]

Nice IR35 case there were HMRC to come calling..

No, they banned LtdCo and requested Umbrella at the same rate. I walked. So did too many others. Two months down the line they had been forced to allow home working by Covid and offered an increased rate - I accepted on the condition of home working mornings only. It would be difficult to show it was the same working conditions before and after the gap. Hopefully HMRC have lower hanging fruit to pick, and haven't they re-deployed all the IR35 investigators onto all the Covid fraud - that will keep them occupied for years.
Anyway, I still have my "HMRC confirms outside IR35" letter from the conclusion of the last "records check" they tried on me.

[rootsnall]

For the contract work prior to switching to the umbrella (as although measterbrook can claim that the contract is outside the actions of his client show that the client felt it was an inside IR35 contract).

Aha, I'm with you now.

[eek]

Surely they are now paying NI if using an umbrella

For the contract work prior to switching to the umbrella (as although measterbrook can claim that the contract is outside the actions of his client show that the client felt it was an inside IR35 contract).

[rootsnall]

Nice IR35 case there were HMRC to come calling..

Surely they are now paying NI if using an umbrella

[eek]

Not at the same time. I switched pension providers during my "employment"* with JSA.

However, there is nothing legally that prevents contributing to 2 pension schemes, but umbrella companies seem to have a problem with just one, so I wouldn't try getting them to do 2 at the same time. Actually a very long time ago when I worked as an employee I did contribute to 2 penson schemes at the same time - a fixed defined benefit scheme and a variable defined contribution (AVC) scheme.

*Legally it may be employment - but to me it is outsourcing of payroll to get round a mid-contract client ban on Ltd Co contractors. I don't feel like an employee, I don't get any of the benefits of employment, so to me it is not employment.

Nice IR35 case there were HMRC to come calling..

[measterbrook]

Hang on JSA are paying into 2 different pensions?

Not at the same time. I switched pension providers during my "employment"* with JSA.

However, there is nothing legally that prevents contributing to 2 pension schemes, but umbrella companies seem to have a problem with just one, so I wouldn't try getting them to do 2 at the same time. Actually a very long time ago when I worked as an employee I did contribute to 2 penson schemes at the same time - a fixed defined benefit scheme and a variable defined contribution (AVC) scheme.

*Legally it may be employment - but to me it is outsourcing of payroll to get round a mid-contract client ban on Ltd Co contractors. I don't feel like an employee, I don't get any of the benefits of employment, so to me it is not employment.

[eek]

JSA are paying into my Fidelity SIPP without a problem. I know other contractors with JSA using other pension providers. I need to know if anyone is using JSA+Aegon. I suspect not otherwise I would not be having a problem, but I thought it would be worth asking.

Hang on JSA are paying into 2 different pensions?

[measterbrook]

That's quite a specific setup. Can't it be opened it to JSA customers with other pension providers for more takers?

JSA are paying into my Fidelity SIPP without a problem. I know other contractors with JSA using other pension providers. I need to know if anyone is using JSA+Aegon. I suspect not otherwise I would not be having a problem, but I thought it would be worth asking.

[measterbrook]

If both JSA and Aegon are giving you the same story - surely it's accurate...

Unfortunately they are not giving me the same story.