Off-site Project Work and IR35

[eek]

This. If it is a large company then if you can convince them that your plan is outside, you've got it made.

If it is a small company, you have to be able to convince your insurer and HMRC, if they ever come asking, which they probably won't.

Re: small companies, they'll wait two years, declare the private sector roll out a success, and expand it to small companies.

It won't be necessary - as soon as the minimum wage requirements are dropped for immigrants I'm bringing people in from Belarus, Ukraine and other parts of non-EU eastern Europe

Oh and India.

[WordIsBond]

Is the client deemed "small" under the new application of IR35? ie. who has to make the determination? If its the client, you need to speak to them, as its their decision, not yours.

This. If it is a large company then if you can convince them that your plan is outside, you've got it made.

If it is a small company, you have to be able to convince your insurer and HMRC, if they ever come asking, which they probably won't.

Re: small companies, they'll wait two years, declare the private sector roll out a success, and expand it to small companies.

[WordIsBond]

Possibly but many perms can work offsite nowadays. I don't think it's the flag it might have been back in the day.

Obviously it's not a silver bullet. It helps you make the argument.

[Paralytic]

I typically work on-site paid at a daily rate. However, I have the chance of working with a new client, so due to the impending April 2020 changes, I'm thinking of working off-site and with project based pricing. Will this avoid IR35 and PSC changes coming in April 2020?

Is the client deemed "small" under the new application of IR35? ie. who has to make the determination? If its the client, you need to speak to them, as its their decision, not yours.

[eek]

Possibly but many perms can work offsite nowadays. I don't think it's the flag it might have been back in the day.


Indeed. This is, in fact, one of the only examples given during the public sector change that was deemed outside. It was the lady delivering to the hospital example if anyone remembers it.

It was the website example.

[northernladuk]

If you are off-site, it is easier to argue that you aren't under Supervision, Direction, Control.

Possibly but many perms can work offsite nowadays. I don't think it's the flag it might have been back in the day.

If you are being paid a fixed amount per project, no matter how long it takes, that is definitely an argument against IR35. Generally employees are not paid in this way and so it is a pointer to self-employment/outside IR35.

Indeed. This is, in fact, one of the only examples given during the public sector change that was deemed outside. It was the lady delivering to the hospital example if anyone remembers it.

[WordIsBond]

If you are off-site, it is easier to argue that you aren't under Supervision, Direction, Control.

If you are being paid a fixed amount per project, no matter how long it takes, that is definitely an argument against IR35. Generally employees are not paid in this way and so it is a pointer to self-employment/outside IR35.

[GhostofTarbera]

Ah I see. However, if I really am working off site and completing the project with little outside input then this would be ok in the post April 2020 world?

This is how my client works with several other companies and there has never been an IR35 discussion.

Yes those are real companies not tax dodging disguised employees (HMRC view)


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[quantum77]

Same thing applies.

Where you work and how you invoice / get paid means nothing if the day to day working practises are akin to employment.

Ah I see. However, if I really am working off site and completing the project with little outside input then this would be ok in the post April 2020 world?

This is how my client works with several other companies and there has never been an IR35 discussion.

[ladymuck]

Will the switch from daily rate billing to a per project price help? I would imagine so as most SEO agencies I work with do the same and aren't even aware of IR35.

Same thing applies.

Where you work and how you invoice / get paid means nothing if the day to day working practises are akin to employment.

[quantum77]

Will the switch from daily rate billing to a per project price help? I would imagine so as most SEO agencies I work with do the same and aren't even aware of IR35.

[ladymuck]

Where you do the work doesn't mean anything if the client is breathing down your neck day in, day out checking up on you.

[quantum77]

I typically work on-site paid at a daily rate. However, I have the chance of working with a new client, so due to the impending April 2020 changes, I'm thinking of working off-site and with project based pricing. Will this avoid IR35 and PSC changes coming in April 2020?