Reply to: Will Hector come after Public Sector Contractors

[rocktronAMP]

Uber are doing radio ads where they claim you too can be self employed with them. These ads started after the ruling.

Yep .. If you are a regular sports fan throughout November, Uber have been advertising on the radio over Talksport.

[youngguy]

Know anyone who knows how to fill in those Tenders? Can see a market there for someone to help and guide until people know what they are doing....

The digital outcome specialist one is open to new suppliers NOW.

You have to create an account, get a DUNS number and put what services you will offer. I think they then tell you in about a month whether you have been accepted as a supplier. Assuming you have, you can then "apply" for roles. I've not done it myself so not sure how that bit of the process works,but it appears to basically be a CV.

[jamesbrown]

I'm not so sure. It was in the papers last weekend which didn't really feature the sacrifice changes, this week we have the sacrifice changes with few mentions of the PSC changes. Also a conversation on Friday morning didn't imply any changes - their viewpoint was that the implied Uber changes was an issue for other departments....

I don't recall anything informed (spun) by gov't thinking last weekend(?). Anyway, as I say, the balance of probability must be that you're right, but they would normally make far more hay from an avoidance story, especially with ongoing negative stories in the press (e.g. Sadiq Khan's night tsar). Also, we know that they're way behind schedule with the online tool and the PS is completely unprepared.

[eek]

I'm starting to wonder if they haven't decided to punt this. I guess the balance of probability is still that they'll go ahead, but I see nothing in the Sunday papers, and it's one of those measures (avoidance) that would often get leaked. There were two major consultations out that I'm aware of; one on the PS reforms and one on salary sacrifice. The latter is all over the papers. I know they're way behind schedule and several PS agencies have asked for this to be punted.

I'm not so sure. It was in the papers last weekend which didn't really feature the sacrifice changes, this week we have the sacrifice changes with few mentions of the PSC changes. Also a conversation on Friday morning didn't imply any changes - their viewpoint was that the implied Uber changes was an issue for other departments....

[jamesbrown]

I'm starting to wonder if they haven't decided to punt this. I guess the balance of probability is still that they'll go ahead, but I see nothing in the Sunday papers, and it's one of those measures (avoidance) that would often get leaked. There were two major consultations out that I'm aware of; one on the PS reforms and one on salary sacrifice. The latter is all over the papers. I know they're way behind schedule and several PS agencies have asked for this to be punted.

[mudskipper]

Going to go through the process myself soon I will let you know how it goes. By the way if you look at cl one page the documents have been quietly changed… They no longer say that the civil servant must hold SD&C rights in all cases.

I think we see a light at the end of the tunnel...

After much rooting around and google-fu, I've located the old version. I don't think there is any material change in wording.

http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....%20Generic.pdf (Jul 16 version)
http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....%20%281%29.pdf (Sep 16 version)

There is a new user guide dated 18 November

http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....11.16.docx.pdf

Edit: Previous version http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....2.06.16%20.pdf

Again, I don't think the changes are material.

[bobspud]

my take on the change is the demand the the hirer MUST exercise SD&C has vanished. The original version I posted links to was a railroad to paid holidays. This new version has pulled back from that but either way we all now know that agency working rights kicks in retrospectively as soon as the department says we must be inside...

At least we all know that there will be a wind fall to pay hector even if we nicked his wallet to do it

[eek]

Going to go through the process myself soon I will let you know how it goes. By the way if you look at cl one page the documents have been quietly changed… They no longer say that the civil servant must hold SD&C rights in all cases.

I think we see a light at the end of the tunnel...

I think I'm still in the wait and see model as while the framework agreement customer guidance has been updated http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....11.16.docx.pdf (being rather long I haven't read all of it. It seems to regard the framework itself though which doesn't help as I can't find supervision mentioned at all).

the generic guide is still the one from September http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....%20%281%29.pdf and that version still has:-

If the department hirer is responsible for the work done, then the role is classified as Contingent Labour.

and above that:-

Supervision and direction is provided by the hirer within the department/team that hires the worker.
The hirer within the department/team that hires the worker carries the responsibility for outcomes of work, not the agency/supplier that provides the worker.
Contingent Labour generally covers the below roles:
• Interim Managers
• Specialist Contractors
• Administration and Clerical Workers
• Operational Workers

To be honest I don't think its going to make much difference to me. It's been a spur to change my business model and I'm glad about that. Just wish there were more hours in the day and more people I could get to help...

[bobspud]

Know anyone who knows how to fill in those Tenders? Can see a market there for someone to help and guide until people know what they are doing....

Going to go through the process myself soon I will let you know how it goes. By the way if you look at cl one page the documents have been quietly changed… They no longer say that the civil servant must hold SD&C rights in all cases.

I think we see a light at the end of the tunnel...

[eek]

If you watch the digital Market place you will see more and more invitations to tender for work. these are what the majority of agencies are feeding off. If you are a real contractor you might consider ways of getting in the way of the Agencies and applying directly to the market place. But more importantly, even if you take the role through an agent, Digital Market place sets the deliverables and scope of the agreement so all they need to do is ask for a skilled resource to follow a five phase delivery schedule. and that is what the supplier has to fulfil.

Know anyone who knows how to fill in those Tenders? Can see a market there for someone to help and guide until people know what they are doing....

[bobspud]

The problem with that is the people who do the work aren't the same as those who write the contract.

So while I can easily write my own schedule which the client staff dealing with the budget will agree with, the agency will block it.

If you watch the digital Market place you will see more and more invitations to tender for work. these are what the majority of agencies are feeding off. If you are a real contractor you might consider ways of getting in the way of the Agencies and applying directly to the market place. But more importantly, even if you take the role through an agent, Digital Market place sets the deliverables and scope of the agreement so all they need to do is ask for a skilled resource to follow a five phase delivery schedule. and that is what the supplier has to fulfil.

[LondonManc]

They are tasked to find a body, they find a body....

I thought it was obvious - if you want to move out of the body shop game you need to escape the agency....

It is and there's a plan in its early stages of getting that into play. 5-year plan to change things significantly.

[MrMarkyMark]

They are tasked to find a body, they find a body....

I thought it was obvious - if you want to move out of the body shop game you need to escape the agency....

The problem in IB is even if you are direct, you have to usually engage with the in house agency, in any case.
You then have a fight on your hands getting all the nasty clauses removed that are not relevant due to the direct engagement.
This fight delayed my start for a week this time around and required around 30 mails and the intervention of senior management to "fix" the problem.

[eek]

It does make you wonder what their purpose is; clearly there's no sense of account management with many of them and they're simply sales people without commercial acumen.

They are tasked to find a body, they find a body....

I thought it was obvious - if you want to move out of the body shop game you need to escape the agency....

[LondonManc]

Or just write their own BS one in (if you are lucky enough to get one in the 1st place).

It does make you wonder what their purpose is; clearly there's no sense of account management with many of them and they're simply sales people without commercial acumen.