Reply to: Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[rocktronAMP]

Agree with the others - the petition has picked the one point (drop in income) that is not going to gain any sympathy.

There are very good arguments against the proposal which have been made to anyone who will listen.

Well jobs are still being advertised Scala Developer - Web Applications - Central London - December-09-2016 (EzYT0) and I'd expect a deluge up until April.

I think, at this stage, all we can do is, inform other contractors who are unaware of the pending PS situation. We can all put a sentence on Linked-In profiles that says something to the effect of "Absolutely no to public sector contracts. Please don't ask, because a punch in the face often offends". We can inform through blog posts and on a social media. We can definitely link directly to the GOV UK pdf and off-payroll pages as a source reference, just in case some people don't believe us, like journalists are supposed to do. If all of us knowing forum contractors could do this, we would build a momentum that will be something of a protest / movement.

[mudskipper]

If you want to make your voice heard and maybe convince HMRC that they should reconsider the sledgehammer IR35 approach they're adopting to contractor tax etc, you might want to consider signing the official petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170118

Agree with the others - the petition has picked the one point (drop in income) that is not going to gain any sympathy.

There are very good arguments against the proposal which have been made to anyone who will listen.

[SueEllen]

Or simply cannot be bothered. They many not want the feeling of downgrading their offering and may want you in the restaurant to keep it busier as well as the bar. That said, most Indian* restaurants do takeaway collection if you ask them.


* actually Bengali cuisine in the main, but it traditionally confused Brits who thought of curries as Indian

In my area and most of the areas I've lived in it's mainly Pakistani cuisine. Though I've had Sri Lankan cuisine as well.

Anyway now they are looking at Amazon's conditions linky and linky

[missinggreenfields]

Now stop the ir35 changes to avoid it reducing the available workforce would be an argument people could understand.

Or even "this will not save money, it will cost money" if it comes to discussions about taxation

[eek]

If you want to make your voice heard and maybe convince HMRC that they should reconsider the sledgehammer IR35 approach they're adopting to contractor tax etc, you might want to consider signing the official petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170118

It's the wrong argument. I don't like the amount of tax I'm going to pay is not an argument that anyone will discuss.

Now stop the ir35 changes to avoid it reducing the available workforce would be an argument people could understand.

I think a better one is to speak to ministers directly and point out that now employment tribunals are using sdc to determine worker / employment rights, do you really want to end up with your expensive specialist contract staff demanding their employment rights as that is what cl1 determines them to be.

And has anyone looked at the equality act 2010 and thought through the consequences were the above to happen

But that petition is an embarrassment and undermines our arguments rather than helping anyone.

[missinggreenfields]

If you want to make your voice heard and maybe convince HMRC that they should reconsider the sledgehammer IR35 approach they're adopting to contractor tax etc, you might want to consider signing the official petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170118

I'm not convinced that a petition along the lines of "we'll earn less" is going to get much traction. The simple response from HMG it that there is a reason that we'll earn less - we'll have to pay the right level of taxation, which is what they want.

[GrumpyG]

Government Petition

If you want to make your voice heard and maybe convince HMRC that they should reconsider the sledgehammer IR35 approach they're adopting to contractor tax etc, you might want to consider signing the official petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170118

[LondonManc]

If deliveries were profitable for these restaurants they would do them.

Or simply cannot be bothered. They many not want the feeling of downgrading their offering and may want you in the restaurant to keep it busier as well as the bar. That said, most Indian* restaurants do takeaway collection if you ask them.


* actually Bengali cuisine in the main, but it traditionally confused Brits who thought of curries as Indian

[SueEllen]

It's more of a unique process than a unique offering I guess - with the other two, they act as an interface for other management with the takeaways - they're more like the trainline model. Deliveroo is unique in the sense that it's the only one that does the delivery (it's unique, I guess, in that you can get deliveries from restaurants that don't do deliveries).

If deliveries were profitable for these restaurants they would do them.

[LondonManc]

I'm not sure deliveroo would have been GMB's poster boy if it had started before uber did , I don't think its got a long term future.

Deliveroo is in a far worse position than uber, it's based in London trying to make money in a world where it's competition is just eat and hungry horse. To say it's screwed unless it pays per piece is an understatement, personally I don't think it's business model is valid even if it's allowed to just pay workers per delivery.

Edit to add - I discussed this with some people in the US a while ago and one of Deliveroo's investors was shocked when I stated that their competitors were Just Eat and Hungry Horse. They had been told this was a unique offering in the UK following the example of Seamless and Caviar in the States.

It's more of a unique process than a unique offering I guess - with the other two, they act as an interface for other management with the takeaways - they're more like the trainline model. Deliveroo is unique in the sense that it's the only one that does the delivery (it's unique, I guess, in that you can get deliveries from restaurants that don't do deliveries).

There are fundamental flaws and areas of no use; for a pizza/kebab delivery, once you're over £8-10, delivery is free. There's Chinese takeaways that generally charge 50p or a £1 delivery no matter how much you order. I totally agree with you - I cannot see it being a long term success.

[MrMarkyMark]

Probably not, but that doesn't matter. The point is that after the Uber win, we are likely to see a lot more of these coming out of the woodwork. It's good for us because these cases are making a clear distinction between disguised employment arising from poor employer practices and people who are genuinely in business on their own account. It's also reinforcing the notion that employers who take on "freelancers" in this way and subject them to SDC are going to have to provide the associated benefits of employment.

TBH, the timing of all this is pure gold, you really couldn't make it up

[DaveB]

I'm not sure deliveroo would have been GMB's poster boy if it had started before uber did , I don't think its got a long term future.

Deliveroo is in a far worse position than uber, it's based in London trying to make money in a world where it's competition is just eat and hungry horse. To say it's screwed unless it pays per piece is an understatement, personally I don't think it's business model is valid even if it's allowed to just pay workers per delivery.

Edit to add - I discussed this with some people in the US a while ago and one of Deliveroo's investors was shocked when I stated that their competitors were Just Eat and Hungry Horse. They had been told this was a unique offering in the UK following the example of Seamless and Caviar in the States.

Probably not, but that doesn't matter. The point is that after the Uber win, we are likely to see a lot more of these coming out of the woodwork. It's good for us because these cases are making a clear distinction between disguised employment arising from poor employer practices and people who are genuinely in business on their own account. It's also reinforcing the notion that employers who take on "freelancers" in this way and subject them to SDC are going to have to provide the associated benefits of employment.

[MrMarkyMark]

I'm not sure deliveroo would have been GMB's poster boy if it had started before uber did , I don't think its got a long term future.

Deliveroo is in a far worse position than uber, it's based in London trying to make money in a world where it's competition is just eat and hungry horse. To say it's screwed unless it pays per piece is an understatement, personally I don't think it's business model is valid even if it's allowed to just pay workers per delivery.

Edit to add - I discussed this with some people in the US a while ago and one of Deliveroo's investors was shocked when I stated that their competitors were Just Eat and Hungry Horse. They had been told this was a unique offering in the UK following the example of Seamless and Caviar in the States.

True and TBH you get a far better delivery service if you actually get to know the guys that run the restaurants, obviously tipping the driver often brings dividends too.

[eek]

After Uber, Deliveroo.

Looks like there is a snowball gathering pace.

Deliveroo riders seek to unionise and gain workers' rights - BBC News

I'm not sure deliveroo would have been GMB's poster boy if it had started before uber did , I don't think its got a long term future.

Deliveroo is in a far worse position than uber, it's based in London trying to make money in a world where it's competition is just eat and hungry horse. To say it's screwed unless it pays per piece is an understatement, personally I don't think it's business model is valid even if it's allowed to just pay workers per delivery.

Edit to add - I discussed this with some people in the US a while ago and one of Deliveroo's investors was shocked when I stated that their competitors were Just Eat and Hungry Horse. They had been told this was a unique offering in the UK following the example of Seamless and Caviar in the States.

[DaveB]

After Uber, Deliveroo.

Looks like there is a snowball gathering pace.

Deliveroo riders seek to unionise and gain workers' rights - BBC News