Reply to: Planning your program.

[vetran]

Thats what the agile process is all about. Deliver working code, then document it.

we have the the agro process, the code is half working and the documentation is 'really optional'

[SpontaneousOrder]

on this - the current project I am on seems to want everyone's design down to the nth degree

and I am struggling to see the benefit of such detailed documentation which does not actually allow the developer to get on with the development until this has all been signed off.

But the problem is as you are developing something new there will always be things to try to make it work which will only be found out at the point when they try and make it -at which point the hours of time a spent and trees chopped down to make the documents then become completely wasted.

So I look for detailed designs as an out come of development not something development is dependant on.

Am I a dinosaur and doing it wrong?

TIA

Thats what the agile process is all about. Deliver working code, then document it.

[woohoo]

on this - the current project I am on seems to want everyone's design down to the nth degree

and I am struggling to see the benefit of such detailed documentation which does not actually allow the developer to get on with the development until this has all been signed off.

But the problem is as you are developing something new there will always be things to try to make it work which will only be found out at the point when they try and make it -at which point the hours of time a spent and trees chopped down to make the documents then become completely wasted.

So I look for detailed designs as an out come of development not something development is dependant on.

Am I a dinosaur and doing it wrong?

TIA

Assuming your talking about the design of the software rather than requirements/specification then I tend to agree with you.

However, I did work on a project once where they had a process of designing the software and having it reviewed by a few people who signed it off. I found that I spent nearly two months evaluating web services etc, designing the software and about 1 month coding. This approach worked really well for them and there is something to be said for taking the time up front to think out the design, but wasn't a fun project.

[NickFitz]

So I look for detailed designs as an out come of development not something development is dependant on.

Am I a dinosaur and doing it wrong?

TIA

No. As the man said, "The source code is the design": Code as Design: Three Essays by Jack W. Reeves.

[original PM]

No. When dealing with novelty most development is design, that's what managermen don't seem to grasp. In the wider world people will create dozens of prototypes before a final product is released.

Thank you!

Makes me more comfortable

I was just always struggling to ariculate it to managment

I think last time I tried I comapared it to asking a brickie to write the number on the bricks which he is going to lay them in - time consuming and ultimately pointless

went down like a lead balloon

as did the time I tried to explain why hiring more developers does not mean things get done quicker - I compared that to hiring a 4th brickie to start building the wall from the top

I think I am gonna need a new role soon!

[doodab]

Am I a dinosaur and doing it wrong?

No. When dealing with novelty most development is design, that's what managermen don't seem to grasp. In the wider world people will create dozens of prototypes before a final product is released.

[original PM]

on this - the current project I am on seems to want everyone's design down to the nth degree

and I am struggling to see the benefit of such detailed documentation which does not actually allow the developer to get on with the development until this has all been signed off.

But the problem is as you are developing something new there will always be things to try to make it work which will only be found out at the point when they try and make it -at which point the hours of time a spent and trees chopped down to make the documents then become completely wasted.

So I look for detailed designs as an out come of development not something development is dependant on.

Am I a dinosaur and doing it wrong?

TIA

[SpontaneousOrder]

Last time I did it I used JSP!!!! Showing my age!

I learned all that junk on my degree course twelve years ago. Never seen it since!

[Damon]

Last time I did it I used JSP!!!! Showing my age!

[vetran]

paper flowchart & list of required inputs & outputs. Lots of crayon!

[Gittins Gal]

Totally irrelevant, but I'm a bottom up kind of GAL.

Oh, me too

[doodab]

no one told me about the mallet of understanding!

You don't remember receiving a tap on the head?

[woohoo]

Then I give up & hit the thing with the Mallet of Understanding.

no one told me about the mallet of understanding!

[gbonner]

Thanks for the advice.

I have sketched out a couple screens and added some notes for features and processes that should happen which has helped a lot.

The main problem I seem to face is that when I write one bit of code for an event that then kicks off another event I don't usually have the right output variables to pass on so then have to go back and rewrite it.

From you replies this seems to be a normal part of the programming process.

[d000hg]

Just sketching it on a piece of paper can help a lot, even the proverbial envelope.

Or SY01 can probably recommend a 437 page template.