Reply to: Need to get up to speed on mobile apps

[Durbs]

I've gone back to MonoTouch and using c# found i could produce things 10x quicker.

Only BIG problem is that its $399 for even the base version of it so may have to persevere with Convoluted-C or whatever it calls itself.

[doodab]

I managed to get the android SDK installed and running with eclipse in about an hour. It worked too.

Obviously it probably helps that I've been using eclipse for years.

[xoggoth]

Can't get anywhere with that Appcelerator. On attempting to package it either just sits there telling me it's packaging for ever or returns an http null error. On more than one occasion it has locked up the entire machine when I open it and only solution is to switch off.

Actually it seems to locks the PC up everytime apart from the 1st time it is opened. Are there any mobile dev progs that aren't flakey open source stuff? Couldn't get anywhere with Nokia dev stuff either, it just didn't work.

[VectraMan]

The way the rules seem to be being applied is:-

if the end program directly uses Apple's API everything is fine.
If the end program uses a separate API no chance.

But what's an API exactly? You have to use the OS API to some extent to do anything on an OS.

It's not just the language or API issues either. Jobs spoke out specifically against any kind of cross platform development system.

[eek]

Apple app police anoint un-Flash code translation

It does seem that so far the principle has only been applied to anything created from an Adobe product. IIRC JavaScript was only allowed if interpreted by Safari, i.e. part of a web page, whereas Appcelerator (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be using JavaScript internally but spitting out something else to feed into Apple's tools. A bit of a grey area at best.

The problem is, this could all change tomorrow morning if Steve Jobs wakes up with a new whim.

The way the rules seem to be being applied is:-

if the end program directly uses Apple's API everything is fine.
If the end program uses a separate API no chance.

While it is a gray area the time I save means that there is an obvious no chance statement I'll continue to use my current tool set.

[VectraMan]

You're out of date on the rules apple seem to be applying. The current rules seem to be if the tool directly uses Apple's api's its fine if not you'll have a problem. Javascript is explicitly allowed so Appcelarator doesn't seem to have any problems.

Have MonoTouch apps been barred as I have seen no evidence that appcelerator or unity3d ones have been?

Apple app police anoint un-Flash code translation

It does seem that so far the principle has only been applied to anything created from an Adobe product. IIRC JavaScript was only allowed if interpreted by Safari, i.e. part of a web page, whereas Appcelerator (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be using JavaScript internally but spitting out something else to feed into Apple's tools. A bit of a grey area at best.

The problem is, this could all change tomorrow morning if Steve Jobs wakes up with a new whim.

[xoggoth]

Iphone/Ipad dev would appear much the same - same os, sdk anyway.

That appcelerator looks most interesting.

[TimberWolf]

Cheers.

Anyone any thoughts on Android? It appears it has outsold Iphone in the US and growing fast. Can develop on PC with free SDK and Google never seems to be a bad bet commercially. Have not looked very far into this yet but dev setup up looks to have much clearer guidance than the Nokia nightmare.

Or for Iphone, maybe just webpages using Safari. No Flash but I never use it anyway, jscript does most of any animation I want. Can do Safari extensions apparently, free dev kit.

I didn't realise Research in Motion had the biggest market share. It'll be interesting to see what the share is when the dust settles after the iPad and iPhone4 sales figures are in.
NPD: Google Android Smartphones Outselling Apple iPhones | Peter Kafka | MediaMemo | AllThingsD
UPDATE 2-Google beats Microsoft in smartphones -Gartner | Reuters

[TimberWolf]

• Head First iPhone Development by Pilone and Pilone (O'Reilly);
• iPhone SDK Development by Dudney and Adamson (Pragmatic Bookshelf);
• Beginning iPhone 3 Development by Mark and LeMarche (APress);
• Programming in Objective-C 2.0 2nd Edition by Kochan (Addison Wesley);

and a load of blogs, and Apple's own documentation, which is generally excellent - if anything, it's too detailed when you're just getting to grips with something, which is where those books come in. I'll tend to either follow one of the examples from a book or draw on the various books to create something of my own, then once I've got something working and understand why and how it works, I'll re-review the Apple guides to pick up on any additional aspects that may have been glossed over or omitted for clarity in the books.

Apple's sample code apps are also worth looking at, although they shouldn't necessarily be seen as code you can just cut & paste into your own apps, even though that's permitted. Very often their classes will be demonstrating how you can do the same thing using x different approaches, and obviously you're better off choosing the single approach that's appropriate for your app and only using that.

Cheers. Have a rep point on tic for that and other the info. The forum software won't let me rep people I've repped before yet.

[NickFitz]

What books did you guys buy to get to grips with programming for the iPhone?

• Head First iPhone Development by Pilone and Pilone (O'Reilly);
• iPhone SDK Development by Dudney and Adamson (Pragmatic Bookshelf);
• Beginning iPhone 3 Development by Mark and LeMarche (APress);
• Programming in Objective-C 2.0 2nd Edition by Kochan (Addison Wesley);

and a load of blogs, and Apple's own documentation, which is generally excellent - if anything, it's too detailed when you're just getting to grips with something, which is where those books come in. I'll tend to either follow one of the examples from a book or draw on the various books to create something of my own, then once I've got something working and understand why and how it works, I'll re-review the Apple guides to pick up on any additional aspects that may have been glossed over or omitted for clarity in the books.

Apple's sample code apps are also worth looking at, although they shouldn't necessarily be seen as code you can just cut & paste into your own apps, even though that's permitted. Very often their classes will be demonstrating how you can do the same thing using x different approaches, and obviously you're better off choosing the single approach that's appropriate for your app and only using that.

[eek]

Cheers.

Anyone any thoughts on Android?

I don't trust those figures much. Android is growing fast but its not that big.

Don't forget that targeting iphones also covers ipod touchs which may be your real market at the moment.

either way Appcelerator does allow you to target everything. If you know Javascript its a tool I would at least look at.

[xoggoth]

Cheers.

Anyone any thoughts on Android? It appears it has outsold Iphone in the US and growing fast. Can develop on PC with free SDK and Google never seems to be a bad bet commercially. Have not looked very far into this yet but dev setup up looks to have much clearer guidance than the Nokia nightmare.

Or for Iphone, maybe just webpages using Safari. No Flash but I never use it anyway, jscript does most of any animation I want. Can do Safari extensions apparently, free dev kit.

[eek]

Is that Appcelerator think likely to fall foul of the Apple TOC changes to prohibit 3rd party dev environments i.e. Flash (not familiar with it but assume it falls within that sort of category?).

I'd started out using MonoTouch and that was good as i could use the .NET webservice classes which are really quick and simple to code against but then scrapped that in case they started banning MonoTouch developed apps.

Book-wise, i use "Beginning iPhone 3 Development: Exploring the iPhone SDK" published by Apress and its pretty good.

You're out of date on the rules apple seem to be applying. The current rules seem to be if the tool directly uses Apple's api's its fine if not you'll have a problem. Javascript is explicitly allowed so Appcelarator doesn't seem to have any problems.

Have MonoTouch apps been barred as I have seen no evidence that appcelerator or unity3d ones have been?

[Durbs]

Use Appcelerator. Never had a problem talking to webservices with it.

Mind you I'm now suffering with websockets on the iphone side of things. Code works in ios 3 not in ios 4.

Is that Appcelerator think likely to fall foul of the Apple TOC changes to prohibit 3rd party dev environments i.e. Flash (not familiar with it but assume it falls within that sort of category?).

I'd started out using MonoTouch and that was good as i could use the .NET webservice classes which are really quick and simple to code against but then scrapped that in case they started banning MonoTouch developed apps.

Book-wise, i use "Beginning iPhone 3 Development: Exploring the iPhone SDK" published by Apress and its pretty good.

[TimberWolf]

What books did you guys buy to get to grips with programming for the iPhone?